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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 19th March 2017, 12:06 PM   #31
Grasso789 is offline Grasso789  Germany
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Originally Posted by fluid View Post
What on earth does that mean?
You bring up specific brand models as viable solutions, while they are all broken technically.

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Maybe not but two speaker "stereo" sound is not going anywhere anytime soon and I don't see the market for 32 speaker hemispherical arrays in most peoples living rooms no matter how good they could be made to sound. I suspect those would be for a man cave only.

They could line up next to the Betamax recorder or any superior format that was sent into obscurity by a more popular competitor
We had that popularity dominance of a broken technics for a man's age. Do you not mean, it is time to move on and stop lying at least on this topic? We may find another topic to lie our souls out.
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Old 19th March 2017, 12:37 PM   #32
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Originally Posted by Grasso789 View Post
You bring up specific brand models as viable solutions, while they are all broken technically.
I was replying to the OP where his writing suggested that he was favouring building a commercial kit. There is nothing currently available that doesn't have any compromises, the ones I posted are decent versions of what they are it's up to the individual to decide which compromises they want.


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We had that popularity dominance of a broken technics for a man's age.
Exactly and who won was it better or more popular? Being better has never been good enough to last out. You might wish it otherwise, good luck with that history and human nature is not on your side.

I tend to find it more productive to concentrate on trying to improve what is available and what will work with the majority of already recorded material.

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Do you not mean, it is time to move on and stop lying at least on this topic? We may find another topic to lie our souls out.
Please point out where I lied? That is a pretty big accusation to make.
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Old 19th March 2017, 01:56 PM   #33
anji12305 is offline anji12305  United States
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Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
I think there is an agenda
You don't say.

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Old 19th March 2017, 09:54 PM   #34
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Originally Posted by Xaborus View Post
Hello all!

I'm looking for everyone's personal experiences and a discussion on speaker design choices and the effects on your soundstage and imaging.
For many years this didn't interest me. In the early 80's I built a couple of the Maplin Mosfet amps based on the Hitachi datasheet, they are still going strong. I used them with some old Celestions. 15 years down the line I was passing a junk shop and saw a pair of old KEF Concertos in the window, popped in, asked how much, 40 he said, he didn't have a clue what they were, just thought they were ugly, so I didn't tell him, just gave him 40. They were an eye opener and I enjoyed them for another 10 years until I moved to a smaller house where they were too big. So, what to do.... I wanted to build my own, so did a lot of reading, not sure how,why or when but I started to get interested firstly in fullrange single driver speakers and then open baffle, the simple minimalist approach appealed to me. I had an old pair of 6" Pioneer coaxial car speakers knocking around and thought they'd make a reasonable substitute for a fullrange just to play around with and see if there was any potential.
I put them in a couple of very large sheets of cardboard and was immediately impressed with the result. I continued to play with them and they ended up a u frame kind of contraption. Ok this is going somewhere me thinkst, so I did a lot more reading about fullrange and finally bought a pair of the original Jordan Eikonas and stuck them in the same u frame.
Fine, great, but of course no real bass, so after a lot of soul searching I decided to abandon OB (or did I?) and built the VTL cabinet for them...............but with a removable back panel..aha!
Ok, I'll wrap this up now, at the moment I'm listening to them OB in a FAST set up with 4 M12 HiVi woofers in U frames, TADA!
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Old 20th March 2017, 03:08 PM   #35
Grasso789 is offline Grasso789  Germany
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Originally Posted by fluid View Post
I was replying to the OP where his writing suggested that he was favouring building a commercial kit. There is nothing currently available that doesn't have any compromises, the ones I posted are decent versions of what they are it's up to the individual to decide which compromises they want.
Last time you replied to me.

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Exactly and who won was it better or more popular? Being better has never been good enough to last out. You might wish it otherwise, good luck with that history and human nature is not on your side.
Nothing's gonna change my world

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I tend to find it more productive to concentrate on trying to improve what is available and what will work with the majority of already recorded material.
Soundstaging of two-loudspeakers stereo cannot become improved, because it is broken by design.

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Please point out where I lied? That is a pretty big accusation to make.
You participated in a topic, which means to improve soundstaging, and advocated devices, which cannot do any soundstaging, except for dialogues. Any two-loudspeakers stereo can play back dialogues. The problem is the phantom center, which was discussed in two topics recently. Left&Rite-loudspeakers stereos cannot establish a stable center impression, and so cannot reproduce a soundstage.
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Old 20th March 2017, 03:44 PM   #36
DonVK is online now DonVK  Canada
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Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
There's a wealth of information right here on this forum. We've had some very cool threads discussing stuff like this. What I used to do is sort the forum on number of views and see which threads surface.

That's how I got to read this one: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...nger-what.html

Lots of interesting parties involved in a thread like that.

Keep in mind, it isn't all about the speakers. Don't forget the room! I chose my speaker design for it's capabilities to work with the room with minimal help needed.

Don't assume, measure . Most preferably at the spot of interest. And learn how we perceive sound to be able to read the measurements.
That was an excellent read, including the Linkwitz evaluation. The conclusion should have been "no statistical significance" user preference got in the way.
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Old 20th March 2017, 04:21 PM   #37
DonVK is online now DonVK  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
For many years this didn't interest me. In the early 80's I built a couple of the Maplin Mosfet amps based on the Hitachi datasheet, they are still going strong. I used them with some old Celestions. 15 years down the line I was passing a junk shop and saw a pair of old KEF Concertos in the window, popped in, asked how much, 40 he said, he didn't have a clue what they were, just thought they were ugly, so I didn't tell him, just gave him 40. They were an eye opener and I enjoyed them for another 10 years until I moved to a smaller house where they were too big. So, what to do.... I wanted to build my own, so did a lot of reading, not sure how,why or when but I started to get interested firstly in fullrange single driver speakers and then open baffle, the simple minimalist approach appealed to me. I had an old pair of 6" Pioneer coaxial car speakers knocking around and thought they'd make a reasonable substitute for a fullrange just to play around with and see if there was any potential.
I put them in a couple of very large sheets of cardboard and was immediately impressed with the result. I continued to play with them and they ended up a u frame kind of contraption. Ok this is going somewhere me thinkst, so I did a lot more reading about fullrange and finally bought a pair of the original Jordan Eikonas and stuck them in the same u frame.
Fine, great, but of course no real bass, so after a lot of soul searching I decided to abandon OB (or did I?) and built the VTL cabinet for them...............but with a removable back panel..aha!
Ok, I'll wrap this up now, at the moment I'm listening to them OB in a FAST set up with 4 M12 HiVi woofers in U frames, TADA!
I still have some 80's gear and listen to it daily. How are your OB U-frame woofers configured? Four frames or 2x2 frames and generally how do you place them in the room.

Last edited by DonVK; 20th March 2017 at 04:21 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 20th March 2017, 04:37 PM   #38
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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The irony of my little tale that was not concluded, cuz I didn't want to bore people, no, to be honest I haven't got an issue with that! I'm not used to typing and I got tired, is I mentioned that I didn't have room for the KEFs, that is a lie, I still have the drivers, which I might have plans for, but I didn't like the bass reflex set up and that definitely didn't work in the room. So, I cut the baffles out of the cabinets, did some internal bracing, and mounted 2 woofers in what was the back. The room is about 12' by 15' and they spend most of the time approx 4' away from all walls and I listen close field
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Old 20th March 2017, 04:46 PM   #39
DonVK is online now DonVK  Canada
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Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
The irony of my little tale that was not concluded, cuz I didn't want to bore people, no, to be honest I haven't got an issue with that! I'm not used to typing and I got tired, is I mentioned that I didn't have room for the KEFs, that is a lie, I still have the drivers, which I might have plans for, but I didn't like the bass reflex set up and that definitely didn't work in the room. So, I cut the baffles out of the cabinets, did some internal bracing, and mounted 2 woofers in what was the back. The room is about 12' by 15' and they spend most of the time approx 4' away from all walls and I listen close field
I'm assuming you did not like the "boom" or box sound from the BR?
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Old 20th March 2017, 05:12 PM   #40
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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That's right. I lived just with the Jordan VTL for a while, very impressive too, occasionally I'll go back to that. I have tinnitus, don't know if it's a combination of things, maybe even psychological, but I feel I've became sensitive to air pressure, I started to find low notes even from the VTL uncomfortable pressure wise, that's one of the reasons I went for the dipole bass. Happy to say it has worked for me too. I would be interested to know if anyone else has this issue with pressure, it doesn't seem to get mentioned.
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