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Old 18th March 2004, 11:59 PM   #1
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Default Upgrading my 15's -want opinions

Well, this is my very first post. I have been reading the forums on diyaudio for a long time and have enjoyed it all along. I do have to admit though, the loudspeaker forum does happen to be where I do most of my reading.

First of all, a bit about my current system, I am tri-amped with a dbx driverack-480 and everything is actively crossed. For the bottom-end I currently have 3.25 cubic foot boxes for my 15's (I know, they're a bit small) with the Dayton 15" series-2 drivers. When I originally put these things together, WinISD told me I needed a 4" port around 17" long. I didn't like the idea of the long port, but since I already had the 4" hole in the back of the cabinet, I decided to go ahead and "give it a shot" with a PVC elbow just to see how they performed in the room. I have to admit, I was quite astonished, -and left good enough alone. They are rolled off at 250 with a 24dB Linkwitz.

Here's my problem, I love lots of low-end, (no, I don't listen to any rap, nor do I care for the kind of bass that eminates from my teenage neighbor's Honda Civic). I do however like well-defined bass that is not overly boomy. I DO however like it warm and powerful, but also tight and accurate when need be (I don't ask for much do I?!!) . My problem is that the Dayton's, while a pretty good sounding driver, (especially for the money), are not really working out for me. They were what I could afford at the time, and for what they cost, they have been an excellent driver, -no regrets. Over the course of the last year or so, I have managed to bottom the coils out against the backplates so many times that one coil-former is now dragging on the pole (not good). I don't think they have near the amount of linear travel that I am after, -especially for the rather smallish boxes I have, (and the high levels of bass that I desire). I have even used some of the subsonic filtering capabilities of my driverack-480 to keep the poor Daytons out of trouble, but they just aren't going to cut it. Here's my latest hairbrain idea, -you all know about those JBL's that Parts Express just ended up with? (Part Number 299-750). I am entertaining the idea of stuffing a couple of those into the 3.25 cubic foot boxes. According to WinISD, it looks very promising. In fact, WinISD actually preferred a smaller box than 3.25 cubic feet for this particular driver. I don't like the idea that they are 4 ohm, but I don't think my amp will have a problem with it. I really like the idea of having the 18mm Xmax, and especially the 4" coil, not to mention the 92 dB sensitivity. I am really between a rock and a hard place on this, -because they ARE expensive (well, to me they are). I have hopes that these drivers will sound a little more defined than the Daytons due to the larger motor. I understand there is much much more to it than that though, and that is why I am asking for any opinions, comments, or advice that you guys can give me.

Thanks in advance,
Rich
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Old 19th March 2004, 12:04 PM   #2
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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Welcome To The DIY Audio Forum ratman542!

I just need some info regarding a few things

First What exactly is the f3 of the boxes you are
currently using now.

Second As far as I can see (TS Parameters) the
Dayton 15 Series II is steered toward Home Hi Fi use,
were as you are using a DBX Driverack 480. So, are you
using your system for home or PA work?


Third The Driverack 480 has all the necessary tools
for you to get the bass you are looking for. Unless, the
box is too small, and, ther lower octaves are rolling off
to fast. Thus driving the speaker harder, in closing,
bottoming out the woofers.

Forth A 3.25 cubic foot box(External) is a baby box
for a 15 inch. Although their are some that will work in
such a box, your chances of getting strong extended bass
is slim to none. By you needing to make the port so deep,
(17 inches) tells you that the box is too small. Not to
mention, a 4 inch port, 17 inches deep in a 3.25 cubic ft
box must of taken alot of space out of the box.


Dude. I just took a look at that JBL you were reffering to.
Can we say............. not worth it. Seriously, the only thing
it has going for it is the 18mm xmax, thats all. IMHO not
worth $250.00 Am I the only one that thinks Parts Express
is over priced for their woofers?


If your using this for PA work, I can search my database
for a better fifteen that will do the job cheaper.

If you're using this for home Hi Fi, check out the Lambada,
or slap on a new baffle, and, use a 12 inch woofer.

The guys on the board can recomend a good 12 inch
woofer, for, I'm more a 15 - 18 inch woofer kind of
person.
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Old 19th March 2004, 12:41 PM   #3
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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Here are the Lambda speakers I was reffering to, if
you're using this for Home Hi Fi.

www.lambdacoustics.com
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Old 19th March 2004, 01:09 PM   #4
Bose(o) is offline Bose(o)  Canada
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Fifth What's your budget man? Is there a budget or are you curious as to know what you can get for a certain cost?

Sixth: I recommend either the Peerless XLS 12 or Adire Audio (anything). How large is your room? How many watts (RMS) do you have available ? I"m assuming that these new woofers will have to do 250Hz as well.
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Old 19th March 2004, 02:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by OMNIFEX
Welcome To The DIY Audio Forum ratman542!

I just need some info regarding a few things

First What exactly is the f3 of the boxes you are
currently using now.

WinISD shows F3 at 31 Hz, but I think that's probably a stretch.

Second As far as I can see (TS Parameters) the
Dayton 15 Series II is steered toward Home Hi Fi use,
were as you are using a DBX Driverack 480. So, are you
using your system for home or PA work?

I do some light DJ work on the side, and I had the idea that I could justify the purchase of the 480 and use it to handle the DJ stuff on the side, (BUT, also use it to play around with the home stereo). The latter idea was OF COURSE the main reason I had to have it! Well over a year and a half later, it is now basically a permanent fixture to the home stereo, and I have purchased a driverack PA for the DJ work.


Third The Driverack 480 has all the necessary tools
for you to get the bass you are looking for. Unless, the
box is too small, and, ther lower octaves are rolling off
to fast. Thus driving the speaker harder, in closing,
bottoming out the woofers.

I agree, the 480 has some awesome capabilities. However I think you are spot-on as far as the boxes being too small, -and I know for a fact that my room isn't helping matters either. I haven't used the RTA on the 480 to pink the room yet, -just used my ears to EQ the room.

Forth A 3.25 cubic foot box(External) is a baby box
for a 15 inch. Although their are some that will work in
such a box, your chances of getting strong extended bass
is slim to none. By you needing to make the port so deep,
(17 inches) tells you that the box is too small. Not to
mention, a 4 inch port, 17 inches deep in a 3.25 cubic ft
box must of taken alot of space out of the box.

I agree, -in fact I'm not opposed to building some new boxes if need be. This could very easily turn into my next "fun" project!


Dude. I just took a look at that JBL you were reffering to.
Can we say............. not worth it. Seriously, the only thing
it has going for it is the 18mm xmax, thats all. IMHO not
worth $250.00 Am I the only one that thinks Parts Express
is over priced for their woofers?

I agree about the price being a little outrageous, but it looked like it would be much better suited than what I have now (even though it would cost more than I would like).


If your using this for PA work, I can search my database
for a better fifteen that will do the job cheaper.

Nope, no PA duty for these, I have some Peavey Low-Rider 18's for the PA stuff, and yes, I have tried them in the house!

If you're using this for home Hi Fi, check out the Lambada,
or slap on a new baffle, and, use a 12 inch woofer.

Thanks for the info. I will check out the Lambada.

The guys on the board can recomend a good 12 inch
woofer, for, I'm more a 15 - 18 inch woofer kind of
person.
I'm not going to say I don't like 12's, because there are some very nice 12's out there. However, I think it would make more sense for me to stick with 15's given the level of low-end I like, -even if it means making some new boxes, -and possibly retiring the 3.25 boxes as 12" boxes.

Thanks so much for all the help and ideas, and I apologize for not being able to figure out how to post quotes the correct way yet. If this reply is a mess (text-wise), I'm sorry!

Rich.
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Old 19th March 2004, 02:47 PM   #6
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The Dayton Titanium MkIII 15" driver has about 40mm peak-to-peak excursion. It's $200 at PE.
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Old 19th March 2004, 02:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Dude. I just took a look at that JBL you were reffering to. Can we say............. not worth it. Seriously, the only thing
it has going for it is the 18mm xmax, thats all. IMHO not
worth $250.00
I must respectfully disagree. I've used JBL woofers, particularly the 2235H (15") and 2245H (18") in a number of applications. Their combination of low distortion, smooth response -especially up into the lower midrange, and high sensitivity make them excellent performers. The only thing they lacked was Xmax. The driver from Parts Express goes a long way to fix this. And, as far as value... $250 is half the price of the Tumult --and you don't need a 2KW amplifier! It's also quite a bit less than equivalent offerings from Focal Audiom, Aura, etc. If I didn't have three more 2235Hs in boxes in my closet, I'd be snapping up some of the PE/JBL drivers.
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Old 19th March 2004, 03:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bose(o)
Fifth What's your budget man? Is there a budget or are you curious as to know what you can get for a certain cost?

Well, the term budget for me is relative. I always have an "imaginary" budget for most projects I do, -however, often times doing things right means spending more money. I don't have tons of money to dump into this right now, but on the other hand, wouldn't have any problem throwing $500-$600 USD at it if in the end it is what I want. If I can't even come close to what I want for that amount of money (and I think I can), then I would be inclined to wait.

Sixth: I recommend either the Peerless XLS 12 or Adire Audio (anything). How large is your room? How many watts (RMS) do you have available ? I"m assuming that these new woofers will have to do 250Hz as well.
Yeah, I have thought about 12's, especially for these particular boxes. The room is about 15 feet wide x 18 feet deep (with a 7-1/2 foot ceiling) The room is frighteningly close to being square, -which is NOT a good thing. One interesting thing I should note is that the left cabinet is NOT in a corner, wheras the right cabinet IS in the corner. The room is shaped kinda funny. I would like to post pics with dimensions, but I am a newbie as far as using the message board, so I'll have to figure out how to do that. As far as power is concerned, I have 375x2 RMS at 8, (or 750x2 RMS at 4). That amp currently runs at 8 (in stereo) from 20-250. And to answer the question on freq. -yes, it would be nice for the new drivers to go to 250 if possible.

Hopefully this gives you a little more info to work with.
Thanks for all the help and ideas, -I appreciate it.

Rich.
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Old 19th March 2004, 03:31 PM   #9
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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ratman542

You still haven't replied to any of my information, nor,
Bose(o). In order to determine the right driver, we
need more information other than you rather stick
to 15's. We can't help you, if you are not giving the
right information.




av_affected

I was not knocking JBL, I own numerous 2441's for
small jobs. Its just, looking at the wide variety of
15's out there, this one is not worth $250.00 IMHO.

Hey do you have the BL Factor, Lvc, and, the Hag,
numbers for this driver. Parts Express neglected to
list them.
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Old 19th March 2004, 03:41 PM   #10
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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Opps!!!

I just noticed you added your info in my quotes.

I'll reply shortly.
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