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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 15th March 2017, 05:50 PM   #21
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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There's just so many ways to build a speaker!

Troels Gravesen never thought this one would be as popular as it turned out:
SEAS-3-Way-Classic

You've got to be enthusiastic about a design. But also choose drivers that play nicely together. 3 ways are the best no doubt. And 8"/4"/1" is one of those classic combinations.

Like Lojzek, I have my own little projects on the go. I'm currently interested in the old Celestion 25. But I thought I might use 8" W200S, 2x TW70 and a supertweeter. That with that great BBC passive bafflestep and impedance correction idea has got me modelling. Seems that great speakers are easy to drive (flattish impedance) in my current thinking.

BTW, there's nothing stopping you redesigning the crossover on your Celestions. I bet it's simplistic!
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File Type: jpg Celestion_Ditton_25.JPG (46.0 KB, 88 views)
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Old 15th March 2017, 06:29 PM   #22
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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I'm probably getting carried away here. But here's what is good about twin midranges wired in series.

Back in the day of the 1980's we in the UK were kinda stuck on dull inefficient plastic bextrene basses. Then along came Wharfedale with their efficient E70.

No one wanted to admit it, but this speaker was astonishingly good. It sang! It went loud without distortion.

There's loads of reasons why it was good in hindsight. How MTM works is the twin drivers just don't get pushed very hard individually. Because you gain level just by twinning them up.

So here's an E70. Another classic idea that works. That particular drivers are probably less important than the great idea. I could do this with Visaton drivers.
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Old 15th March 2017, 09:46 PM   #23
Mrcloc is online now Mrcloc  South Africa
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Those are certainly nice!

I've played around with the W200S-W100S-SC10N idea, and I've come to the attached simulations.

The baffle is 27 cm wide, the W200S is in a 50L 40Hz ported chamber, and the W100S is in a 9.5L sealed chamber.
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File Type: png 200_100_10.png (38.5 KB, 74 views)
File Type: png 200_100_10_crossover.png (12.2 KB, 73 views)
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Old 15th March 2017, 10:51 PM   #24
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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You're doing good Mrcloc. But you are following me too blindly. The three way theory looks like this:

Click the image to open in full size.

I'd start with Troels' 3 way classic as a filter, because you have failed to isolate the mid from the bass with a capacitor and coil. SEAS-3-Way-Classic

But then input your own ideas. Troels Gravesen is certainly no fool. But everybody's ideas evolve.
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Old 15th March 2017, 11:43 PM   #25
Mrcloc is online now Mrcloc  South Africa
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Ah, but what I've done is indeed not a 3 way. I've used the W100S to reinforce the lower frequencies. As an intended side-effect, it ends up smoothing the midrage as well. The only problem here is the power handling of the W100S limits the maximum input power.

Perhaps I must try a true three way, and see where that takes me.

Thanks!
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Old 16th March 2017, 07:41 AM   #26
Mrcloc is online now Mrcloc  South Africa
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Changing the W100S for a W130S has some nice results! The W130S in a 12L sealed enclosure. And this would bring the input power rating to at least 100W.
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Old 16th March 2017, 07:50 AM   #27
Mrcloc is online now Mrcloc  South Africa
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I haven't done a three way yet, but I really haven't had enough time yet... But I did the simulation experiment with the W130S rather than W100S.

How does this look? Theoretically, it seems to look fine, but in real life, will this be any good?
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File Type: png 170_130_10.png (37.6 KB, 14 views)
File Type: png 170_130_10_crossover.png (11.8 KB, 13 views)
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Old 16th March 2017, 07:56 AM   #28
Mrcloc is online now Mrcloc  South Africa
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Sorry, it's a W170S.
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Old 16th March 2017, 02:42 PM   #29
Mrcloc is online now Mrcloc  South Africa
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Ok, so I like the last design I posted. I like the sensitivity and power handling, and I like the look of the response. I don't like the massive component count of the crossover, but if it does a good job, I have nothing against it.

I set up the enclosure design in boxsim, and it looks something like attached, with the frequency response attached as well.

Steve, I've been trawling a bit, and I see you've been helping wlg upgrade his speakers, which are based on 2xW200S's each. I like the stuff you've been saying there - it makes sense. I don't think I'm going to tackle a 3-way design.

Name's Marc.
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File Type: png 200_170_10.png (28.2 KB, 18 views)
File Type: png Box_layout.png (9.1 KB, 18 views)
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Old 16th March 2017, 03:49 PM   #30
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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I was surprised how little I had to do to Troels' design with a W200S-8, W100S-8 and SC10N.
SEAS-3-Way-Classic

The bass section is different because the (2.3mH) W200S is much higher inductance than the (1mH) CA22RNX. But that's about it.

The SC 10 N - 8 Ohm is higher DCR at 6.9R than the 4.8R H0881-06 27TFFC, which might justify an impedance conversion of the tweeter filter to 3.3uF/0.25mH/10uF.

But what's not to like?

You build what you like, Marc, but this one looks OK. The reason 3 ways sound so clean is the midrange is spared bass excursion, which reduces distortion dramatically.
Attached Images
File Type: png Marc 3 way classic circuit.PNG (11.5 KB, 22 views)
File Type: png Marc 3 way classic FR.PNG (21.4 KB, 23 views)
File Type: png Marc 3 way classic Phase.PNG (25.5 KB, 21 views)
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