and I dont know why I didnt do this before, I supopse I had just not thought my bass was that bad and it isnt. But having read a few posts about EQ on the bass to eliminate room modes and how benaficial this is to the sound I thought id give it a shot.
I have had teh KX drivers on my PC for ages and used them lots for other things, but never to equalise bass.
I have also upgraded to XLS10 from 850146's and these might excite the nodes more either way I tried it and found I had two strong modes the 1st at about 43hz and the second at 120hz.
The first was about 10dB up from the rest and the second about 5dB up.
The first mode is slap bang where lots of bass is played in bass heavy music, so I suppose sounds impressive but with the XLS can become tiring especially on bjorks hyperballard, one of the notes in the bass is simply 10dB higher then the other because of this and is really annoying.
So long story short its makes a large difference on percieved quality. I dont know why manufactures dont include say notch filters on preamps and integrateds etc that you can adjust as its well worth it.
Also this is why I posted before about larger rooms being able to produce deeper bass easier etc, thats not it at all its just when notes go below the mode they loose impact so sounds that way.
The only bad thing about this is that its only correct for one listening position, move round the room and the modes change again to its uneven. But you cant have your cake and eat it in audio, so we have to compromise.
Either way if you have KX or a Behringer digital xover try it. Simple play sine waves thru the speakers and tune by ear.
I have had teh KX drivers on my PC for ages and used them lots for other things, but never to equalise bass.
I have also upgraded to XLS10 from 850146's and these might excite the nodes more either way I tried it and found I had two strong modes the 1st at about 43hz and the second at 120hz.
The first was about 10dB up from the rest and the second about 5dB up.
The first mode is slap bang where lots of bass is played in bass heavy music, so I suppose sounds impressive but with the XLS can become tiring especially on bjorks hyperballard, one of the notes in the bass is simply 10dB higher then the other because of this and is really annoying.
So long story short its makes a large difference on percieved quality. I dont know why manufactures dont include say notch filters on preamps and integrateds etc that you can adjust as its well worth it.
Also this is why I posted before about larger rooms being able to produce deeper bass easier etc, thats not it at all its just when notes go below the mode they loose impact so sounds that way.
The only bad thing about this is that its only correct for one listening position, move round the room and the modes change again to its uneven. But you cant have your cake and eat it in audio, so we have to compromise.
Either way if you have KX or a Behringer digital xover try it. Simple play sine waves thru the speakers and tune by ear.
On the route to room compensation:
As it seems you alreadu are using the PC as a souce for your music i can only recommende to take a very serious look at DRC.
http://freshmeat.net/projects/drc/
It has a steep learning curve but there is a guide available for the window based PC at;
http://www.mooneyass.com/DRC/
You need to have a measurement microphone and a mic amp, but other than that is just read - try - learn and enjoy the result!
God luck
Morten
As it seems you alreadu are using the PC as a souce for your music i can only recommende to take a very serious look at DRC.
http://freshmeat.net/projects/drc/
It has a steep learning curve but there is a guide available for the window based PC at;
http://www.mooneyass.com/DRC/
You need to have a measurement microphone and a mic amp, but other than that is just read - try - learn and enjoy the result!
God luck
Morten
Yes very nice except the para EQ is not precise enough so I use two notch filters
The results are very nice to say the least, it enables me to have good even bass which I never could. Where the 40hz mode occured tended to be the level where you would tune to by ear with the bass to made it kinda hard. Removing the peaks showed me I had the bass turned down by a few dB's.
I have just d/l the program recommeded by Henckel, the application doesnt seem to want to execute although im probably trying to run before i can even walk, I bet you need something extra to make this puppy bark. I looked at the readme but dont have time tnite to look thru it, I need sleep! so that will wait till tmoz. The second link appears not to work i also tried changing the mooney to money just incase it was a typo although I doubt it
Measurement mic, well i noticed there were calibration files for the wm61a, guess what i use
That would be very useful to use especially as I would prefer to not use the DSP in the soundcard. I hope though that the program allows you to apply a setting to all the sound and I can play music in my player.
Either way cheers for your responses. Ill post more when I have more to post, but all I can say is what I have done now has really helped the sound, suprisingly it has improved the sound stage!
Anyway thats all for now
Matt
The results are very nice to say the least, it enables me to have good even bass which I never could. Where the 40hz mode occured tended to be the level where you would tune to by ear with the bass to made it kinda hard. Removing the peaks showed me I had the bass turned down by a few dB's.
I have just d/l the program recommeded by Henckel, the application doesnt seem to want to execute
although im probably trying to run before i can even walk, I bet you need something extra to make this puppy bark. I looked at the readme but dont have time tnite to look thru it, I need sleep! so that will wait till tmoz. The second link appears not to work i also tried changing the mooney to money just incase it was a typo although I doubt it Measurement mic, well i noticed there were calibration files for the wm61a, guess what i use
That would be very useful to use especially as I would prefer to not use the DSP in the soundcard. I hope though that the program allows you to apply a setting to all the sound and I can play music in my player.
Either way cheers for your responses. Ill post more when I have more to post, but all I can say is what I have done now has really helped the sound, suprisingly it has improved the sound stage!
Anyway thats all for now
Matt
Hi
I verified the second link today and it works for mee - give it a try again. Without the guide it is very hard to get things going.
Basicaly the DRC program in itself only provides the "filter settings" to do room correction. These filtersettings is then loaded into the player foobar2K. Foobar2K plays every imagnable format including digtal rip´s of CD´s
Morten
I verified the second link today and it works for mee - give it a try again. Without the guide it is very hard to get things going.
Basicaly the DRC program in itself only provides the "filter settings" to do room correction. These filtersettings is then loaded into the player foobar2K. Foobar2K plays every imagnable format including digtal rip´s of CD´s
Morten
Well thats OK then I use foobar as it is now
I would imagine that avoiding room modes is best thing to do in the first place, but how can equalising them out be a negative thing to do?
A room mode is the speaker reacting with the room, which is the same as the speaker reacting to the cabinet. If a speaker in a cab produced some nast peak you would flatten that out in the design phase, so why not room modes?
Cheers Matt
I would imagine that avoiding room modes is best thing to do in the first place, but how can equalising them out be a negative thing to do?
A room mode is the speaker reacting with the room, which is the same as the speaker reacting to the cabinet. If a speaker in a cab produced some nast peak you would flatten that out in the design phase, so why not room modes?
Cheers Matt
Because you don't eliminate the problems in the time-domain that way.
The time decay of a resonance stays the same independant of power fed into it. It will fall below audibility a bit quicker however.
But the worst scenario would be to equalise holes in the response. If there is a standing-wave related suckout you just feed the suckout with more energy to cancel itself. A really bad idea in terms of economy (i.e. amp power and driver excursion).
Regards
Charles
phase_accurate said:
DRC has many parameters to adjust in order to avoid over amplification/very high attenuation. Dips in frequency response is maybee not as distubing as the peaks ( do to masking effect)
As a general observation it is very strange to hear how many people are very negative about room compensation - without having any pratical experinces with DRC. DRC has been gradualy refine/improved over more than 2 years. Dont just say its rubish without giving it a try !
Morten
There is a large difference between DRC and simple EQing: DRC can do compensations in the time domain as well.
I have been able to hear DRC (TacT) and it was definitely an improvement (and not a small one). But it is not a cure-all.
It doesn't make sense to leave crappy (O.K. that is an extreme exaple !) room acoustics as they are and try to hammer everything flat.
It is astonishing how much people seem to believe in digital magic nowadays!
Regards
Charles
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