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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 26th February 2017, 10:38 PM   #11
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Impedance varies with frequency, use impedance plots of your drivers and make crossover calculations using the actual impedance of the driver at the crossover frequency
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Old 26th February 2017, 11:31 PM   #12
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I had the bookshelf version of these speakers. I really liked them. Well made, and despite the measurements, fun to listen to. If you think the treble is too hard, maybe the room is a better place to look?

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E
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Old 27th February 2017, 05:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammond1 View Post
Thank you for your suggestions.
I forgot to say to change the mid-wf to a smaller one.
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Old 27th February 2017, 05:18 AM   #14
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And of course mount every speaker separately.
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Old 27th February 2017, 05:24 AM   #15
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A passive crossover resembling the values that you can play with is shown in this thread
Seeking for a 4 way system project
The speaker shown is an example of a structure not necessarily resembling a box
Nowadays the mid is likely to be in open baffle ( ...see the Nola thread )
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Old 27th February 2017, 11:02 AM   #16
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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What you are really up against here is metal cone breakup.

For example:
E0018-08S W18E001
AL 170 - 8 Ohm

Joe D'appolito does a ca. 5kHz notch here:
THOR

Your woofers are an unknown quantity. But you ought to be able to roughly place the peak with sweepgen and the woofers directly connected to the amp, crossover bypassed. It's going to be between 4.5kHz and 6kHz for a 6 inch metal driver.
Audio Tools - from David Taylor, Edinburgh

Ideally you'd do some proper woofer measurements.

You then notch it about 5-10% higher, just how it works. The cap is going to be between 3.3uF and 6.2uF. So here's a 6.5kHz notch on the Visaton AL 170. I can't think of a better way to do it on a simple filter. Rough and ready? For sure.

Now I happen to have the components required lying about, so if it was my speaker, I would try this.
Attached Images
File Type: png Visaton AL 170 FR.PNG (13.4 KB, 77 views)
File Type: png Metal Cone 6.5kHz notch.PNG (9.6 KB, 75 views)
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Old 27th February 2017, 04:12 PM   #17
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammond1 View Post

I would love to hear from other owners who can recommend mods to tame the mid/high stridency. Are the mods made on the crossover circuit board or close to the drivers?

Thanks in advance!
Hello, this is easily modifed once you have the driver raw measurements in the box with a microphone at standard position 1 m from these. The problem is that measurements ought to be made by someone having these exact speakers, like yourself, and the procedure to do that would involve some work and inquiry on the topic. If you think you can do that, someone might suggest the proper alterations. This product is an ideal candidate for a modification. The tweeter/midwoofer response recorded at Stereophile is a proof of that. I'd even try to suppress the 20 kHz peaking, for the sake of pets.
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Last edited by Lojzek; 27th February 2017 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 27th February 2017, 04:18 PM   #18
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Lojzek is correct. It is the most complete, most no-holds barred way to get to a solution.

With the exception of room treatment. The speaker may sound unduly bright due to the room. As mentioned, I had similar and they didn't sound nearly as bad as that treble measurement would lead you to believe. Maybe throw pillows and blankets around the room first.


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E
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Old 27th February 2017, 10:35 PM   #19
Dissi is offline Dissi  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lojzek View Post
this is easily modifed once you have the driver raw measurements in the box
Well, that's quite optimistic. 2.5-way designs like Troels Gravesen's Peerless Nomex 164 or this Monitor Audio speaker actually are a big challenge even for a professional speaker designer IMO. Off axis response and phase matching with the tweeter is very tricky. And the tweeter of the RS6 is a nightmare. Of course you can flatten the response up to 10 kHz, but the dip at 15 kHz and the peak at 20 kHz is very hard to handle.

I do not post a crossover modification proposal, simply because I didn't find anything reasonable. Attached is a simulation of the original crossover, based on some assumptions and the measurements of stereophile.
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File Type: jpg SimulationMonitorAudioRS6.jpg (118.9 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg CrossoverMonitorAudioRS6.jpg (56.9 KB, 68 views)
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Old 28th February 2017, 12:10 AM   #20
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Nice work, Dissi.

Click the image to open in full size.

If it's got a 5kHz notch on the mid, that is an improvement. I think this is the third schematic I've seen... does anyone ever actually look at their speaker, or do we just all rely in the web...

Click the image to open in full size.

Hammond1, I think you need to check this. Because those small coils look different to me. But it is an atrocious tweeter, for sure. A SEAS would be better. H1212-06 27TBFC/G

That mid notch might be overly deep, and a small damping resistor might help, say, an ohm or two. I got the feeling the bass could do with some shunt element to take it down at 5kHz too.

MA did a few other things here:

Click the image to open in full size.
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