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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

An Improved Array
An Improved Array
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Old 5th August 2017, 11:16 PM   #141
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Functional kit for what?
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Old 5th August 2017, 11:18 PM   #142
jayce996 is offline jayce996
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for powering 2 dayton audio Ultimax 15" sealed subs and another one for powering the 2 CBT speakers with the following specs: 4 Ohms - 50-250 Watts RMS

Last edited by jayce996; 5th August 2017 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 6th August 2017, 12:26 AM   #143
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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If it were me, I'd using a full range class D for the left and right speakers. Then I'd use a plate amp for the subwoofer array. (Only one amp for the subwoofer array because they're all mono.)

I'm using a Sure amp for the mains and a BASH amp for my subs, but there are plenty of good options in the space. MiniDSP sells some nice ones.
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Old 6th August 2017, 03:15 AM   #144
jrh0516 is offline jrh0516  United States
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Looks like the xmc-1 and Dirac would boost the dip at 10K.

You need one amplification channel per speaker. So 2 CBTs and two subs would be two stereo amps. Pro amps are cheap watts per dollar, I like crowns, the inuke stuff is noisy. The outlaw amps are decent. There are dozens others including emotiva amps. Used amps can be a good bargain if you know the seller.
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Old 6th August 2017, 06:33 PM   #145
HammerSandwich is offline HammerSandwich
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You can get (used, ~10yo) Crestron CNAMPX-12x60s on Ebay for under $250. Built by ATI, they are nearly identical to the AT6012.

They require a 24VDC trigger OR a simple mod to bypass the Cresnet board. The 16-channel, 16x60 has an output-relay board which makes this more complicated. Your call.

Crestron offered an external bridging adapter, allowing 4x60W & 4x220W. Seems like this could be done from a balanced source with a simple cable...
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Old 7th August 2017, 10:09 PM   #146
jayce996 is offline jayce996
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i don't get it, do you think that with this single amp, i will be able to drive the line arrays as well as the 2 Dayton Audio subs 15"?
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Old 8th August 2017, 02:50 PM   #147
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Do you have any experience building your own amps or electronics? If not you might want to consider buying ready made. Used professional amps can be picked up quite cheaply but maybe hard to know how hard they have been used.

The Behringers are hard to beat for the price and not all the inukes are bad. The 4 channel NU6000 is a pretty nice looking amp for the money. The fan can be loud but that can be modified. The power specs are a bit misleading but if you cut them in half you won't be disappointed. The impedance does matter in terms of the frequency response. For a full range speaker you would want to use 8 ohms if possible as the frequency response drops at the top end the lower the impedance. 4 ohms or below is no problem for subwoofers.

Behringer iNuke NU3000 Measurements

The 15" subwoofers will likely need a lot more power than the CBT's will depending on what type of enclosure you choose.

For diy ClassD amps that are on the cheap but good end look at the IRS2092 based ones.

By the time you have bought a power supply and chassis DIY is not always a cheap option.
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:43 PM   #148
HammerSandwich is offline HammerSandwich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayce996 View Post
i don't get it, do you think that with this single amp, i will be able to drive the line arrays as well as the 2 Dayton Audio subs 15"?
Referring to my Crestron post? Consider it another option to evaluate.

The 12x60 is not small, efficient or class D. But it provides 12 channels with reasonable power, decently clean/quiet AB output, real protection circuits, and consumer-friendly packaging for $20-25/channel. With the bridging option, driving most subwoofers shouldn't be an issue. And ATI's modular construction makes it simple to service or modify later.

If you find it too challenging to integrate this sort of 1-box amp with RCA inputs, think carefully before jumping on anything like the Sure modules.
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Old 11th August 2017, 01:00 AM   #149
Noxela is offline Noxela  Sweden
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Hi all,

First post from a long time lurker.

Iīm planning my next project. A small music room/garage general purpose PA for jam sessions, occasional small gigs, parties and perhaps movie nights. Not really a HiFi application, but thatīs no reason for accepting crappy sound.

My initial plan was a pair of TH subs with short line arrays on top, each with 9 Faital Pro 3FE25.

But after being sucked in to this thread, and reading the quoted papers, patents and other threads, i became curios about shading, especially the frequency dependent shading suggested by mr. Stiles. There are many (differing) opinions, principles and general guidelines, but no blueprint or formula. I have several questions. At what frequency should the shading begin? Should that frequency be the same in all shading groups? And what shading scheme is prefered.

I came up with a simple, preliminary design, as seen in the attached image.

The enclosure is appr. 800 mm (32.5 inch), divided in two, so that no serially connected drivers share compartment. Impedance for 3FE25 16 ohm is 13.5 ohm @1 KHz. The shading scheme is -6,-3,0,0,0,0,-3,-6 (frequency dependent, F3@ 1 & 1.3 KHz).

I would appreciate comments, and suggestions for improvement. Or should i take the easy way out and just stick with a non-shaded array?

Cheers,
Ola
Attached Images
File Type: png Shaded array 8a.png (94.3 KB, 159 views)
File Type: png Array + sub 2.png (71.7 KB, 160 views)
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Old 12th August 2017, 01:23 PM   #150
Noxela is offline Noxela  Sweden
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I searched for some answers to my three questions above.

At what frequency should the shading begin?
Should that frequency be the same in all shading groups?
And what shading scheme is prefered.

I found a paper by James Novak from 1962, where he apply these principles in the CALSTAR design. See attached wiring scheme. It is a complex design with 16 LP filters with increasing cutoff frequencies.
http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/naylor/LineSo...rs/novak62.pdf

I found that JBL refered to Novaks design in their CBT tech note.
http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachm...o35_091007.pdf

But JBL use a very high crossover point (se image). The reason is explained by Patrick Bateman (Passive Loudspeaker Delay). The JBL network is not a frequency dependent power shading. It is a passive delay.

Any suggestions besides Novaks 55 year old CALSTAR design?
Attached Images
File Type: png Novak 1962 FDPT.png (76.6 KB, 126 views)
File Type: png JBL CBT 50LA.png (109.8 KB, 124 views)
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