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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

4 Way Mid Bass Driver
4 Way Mid Bass Driver
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Old 23rd December 2016, 11:10 AM   #21
crash999 is offline crash999
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Originally Posted by POOH View Post
it's pretty easy to make your own cards for the marchand crossover. any frequency you want
Looking at the price of blanks from Marchand I ordered the units made up.

Can you get the blanks here in Europe?
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Old 23rd December 2016, 11:18 AM   #22
crash999 is offline crash999
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The big problem is not just how flat the measurements are but how the units actually sound in a system. Thats the hidden magic of speaker design it seems, it can be ruler flat and not sound good. I tend to look at speakers that get continuously used, consensus is not a bad measure.
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Old 23rd December 2016, 05:25 PM   #23
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Hi,

Does anyone found the PHL Audio 3450/51 measurements ? German speaker reviews maybe ?

I'm seeing it has a 100 Fs, but seems usable as low as 150 Hz F3 in a 6L box !

Asking myself how a 10" can sound clear with a so little sealed enclosure, but who knows ?
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Old 23rd December 2016, 07:13 PM   #24
whgeiger is offline whgeiger  United States
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Default This one is near by:

Quote:
Originally Posted by crash999 View Post
The big problem is not just how flat the measurements are but how the units actually sound in a system. Thats the hidden magic of speaker design it seems, it can be ruler flat and not sound good. I tend to look at speakers that get continuously used, consensus is not a bad measure.
PD.122

You should be able to audition one without traveling far.

WHG
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Old 24th December 2016, 02:30 PM   #25
1audiohack is offline 1audiohack  United States
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Hi crash;

I have never heard a 10" I would mate with an 18". There is always a hole in the energy, even with heroic EQ.

My favorite affordable fairly easy to get JBL 15" that is amazing in a horn or as a direct radiator is the 2220. They have eveything I love about the 2123 and will play with solid authority with your 2245's in a very small enclosure.

If you pursue a pair make sure they are proper. They share no parts with other JBL 15's although many have been improperly reconed as 2225's and such.

All the best,
Barry.
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Old 24th December 2016, 02:36 PM   #26
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Is there an exact re made Fane Studio 10 todays ? (Pooh's inputt about this nice driver for mid bass application...)
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Old 24th December 2016, 06:40 PM   #27
John Sheerin is offline John Sheerin  United States
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I like the JBL 2225's I use in a very similar system to yours. I run them from 80Hz to 800Hz in sealed boxes. They are a nice directivity match to my LeCleac'h horns when using the right crossover, they have enough output before significant distortion on the low end to keep up with the rest of my system, and they just start having energy storage problems above 800Hz. If you are crossing them over higher on the low end like you mention, I'd try Barry's recommendation of the 2220's.

I'd also suggest ditching the Marchand crossover if you have the ability to take good measurements and use the capabilities of a good DSP crossover. I know the slopes and EQ I'm running to get my system to have a good polar response and the final in-room response I want would not be possible with such a limited choice of filtering. I could do it passively or with custom active filters as well, but it would be a ton of work. The delays I'm using in my system are only very small corrections on the order of a few inches of driver positioning so you don't really need DSP for the delay in a system like this. It just makes it convenient - take one set of measurements, add the needed delay after you come up with the filters needed. You don't have to go back and remeasure with the drivers moved around and redo the filtering again.
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Old 25th December 2016, 01:35 AM   #28
davewantsmoore is offline davewantsmoore  Australia
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Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
I believe that the best midrange sound comes from a sealed box with a cleverly shaped rear volume, and clever use of absorption material. (attached tapered tube sim)
Hi. It's hard to see from the pic. What software did you use there?
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Old 25th December 2016, 02:29 PM   #29
crash999 is offline crash999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Sheerin View Post
I like the JBL 2225's I use in a very similar system to yours. I run them from 80Hz to 800Hz in sealed boxes. They are a nice directivity match to my LeCleac'h horns when using the right crossover, they have enough output before significant distortion on the low end to keep up with the rest of my system, and they just start having energy storage problems above 800Hz. If you are crossing them over higher on the low end like you mention, I'd try Barry's recommendation of the 2220's.

I'd also suggest ditching the Marchand crossover if you have the ability to take good measurements and use the capabilities of a good DSP crossover. I know the slopes and EQ I'm running to get my system to have a good polar response and the final in-room response I want would not be possible with such a limited choice of filtering. I could do it passively or with custom active filters as well, but it would be a ton of work. The delays I'm using in my system are only very small corrections on the order of a few inches of driver positioning so you don't really need DSP for the delay in a system like this. It just makes it convenient - take one set of measurements, add the needed delay after you come up with the filters needed. You don't have to go back and remeasure with the drivers moved around and redo the filtering again.
Thanks John but with DSP the DAC is the problem. As soon as you hear a really good DAC its a revelation.
I believe the less in the path of the signal the better and as soon as you start getting into serious measuring it opens up a whole can of worms.
The whole idea of a 4 way system is to choose drivers with the best possible integration. keeping it simple. I have designed the system so each unit can be moved in relationship to the other. If loads of EQ delay etc are required then its a failure, I use none and my friend who runs JBL 4350s likes the sound mine make but there is always room for improvement
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Old 26th December 2016, 10:41 PM   #30
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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crash999, Did Santa bring you a pair of 15" JBL 2220H speakers for Xmas? (sketch of 18"+15"+eJMLC stack)

90H x 25V polar pattern super tweeters like JBL 2405H are often set near ear level, aimed at the listener, and distance-positioned by ear. Time and phase coherence across the listeners is not possible since 8kHz has a 0.4" quarter wavelength, and there is over 7" separation between horns. Lobing. I believe the main placement goal is to have just one lobe cover the seated listeners for even SPL and consistent sound stage.
-------------
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Originally Posted by davewantsmoore View Post
Hi. It's hard to see from the pic. What software did you use there?
Leonard Audio offers a free TL Design program which models cabinet shape and stuffing absorption.
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Leonard Audio | Audio Engineering Resources
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Last edited by LineSource; 26th December 2016 at 10:54 PM.
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