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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

4 Way Mid Bass Driver
4 Way Mid Bass Driver
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Old 21st December 2016, 10:30 PM   #11
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crash999 View Post
Iím looking for mid Bass drivers to cross from the 2245s at 160Hz to the JBL 2450s at 800Hz.
I like the idea of the Beyma 12P80Nd it gets consistent good reviews but I have never heard one.
I believe that the best midrange sound comes from a sealed box with a cleverly shaped rear volume, and clever use of absorption material. (attached tapered tube sim).

In a sealed box the -F3 of the Beyma 12P80Nd_ver2 varies from 210-250Hz. A -F3 ~140Hz-160Hz might be better to crossover and baffle step to the 18" JBL 2245 in large bass cabinets. You would need to put the 12P80Nd in a ported box to achieve an -F3 in the 140-160Hz.
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File Type: jpg 12P80nd tube.jpg (63.7 KB, 248 views)
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Old 22nd December 2016, 05:14 AM   #12
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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The 15" Beyma 15P80Nd_version3 models to -F3 ~140Hz in a 1cuft sealed box, and shows a flat SPL past 1kHz in the Beyma datasheet. A center-horn ear level of ~42" = 18" woof + 15" mid + 6.5" horn center. The 15P80Nd_v3 uses the same motor, cone construction, and suspension as the 12P80Nd_v2. Beyma's SPL curves for the 15P80Nd_v3 look flat over the desired 160-800Hz region.

The 15P80Nd was used in the European "inConcert Miles" diy speaker, crossed to the Beyma TPL150H, with easy to find measurements and reviews.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 06:19 AM   #13
Brett is offline Brett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crash999 View Post
Following Brettís comments I might try the 2123s in a 10L ported box and see if that improves the sound.
I never ran them ported. I don't like ported midranges; IMO if you need to add a port to get the desired response, you've picked the wrong driver.

I disagree with the title of the AH thread; I never considered the 2123 as a midbass, but a pure midrange.

All my mids use a variation of the B&W tapered tube rear enclosure like LS mentioned.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 07:36 AM   #14
mayhem13 is offline mayhem13  United States
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Looking at the specs for the 2123, agreed...., not a midbass at all really and given its height in a stack a REAL problem with floor bounce cancellation right in the middle of where this driver needs the most bottom end help.

12-15" sealed midbass is where it's at between an 18" sub and a 2" CD.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 04:33 PM   #15
crash999 is offline crash999
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The reason I like this forum is the expertise a basic DIY person has access to.
This is what I have so far picture on Lansing Heritage Forum site:
Work in Progress - My Photo Gallery
I must admit if I was going up to a 15" then I would try one of the JBL units some have been getting very good reviews.
Thanks for the info on the Crown amp I have been Time Aligning Physically and not noticed the delay you mention but it is only a crude method I use. I put a tone at the crossover point then move the speakers either max or min depending on if I have reversed one of the speakers using a Db meter.
At the moment I cross the JBL 2245/JBL 2123 at 260Hz. The JBL 2245 can still sound good at this frequency but I dont think its ideal. Yes the graphs show the JBL 2123 falling off rapidly in the bass region.
I have 160Hz cards for the Marchand XM 44 which is why that's the target.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:53 PM   #16
POOH is offline POOH  United States
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it's pretty easy to make your own cards for the marchand crossover. any frequency you want
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:42 PM   #17
scholl is offline scholl  United States
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Sounds like a fun setup.

I found 12s and 15s used from 60hz to at least 300hz positioned close to the floor give a satisfying sound in most rooms and outside. Lifting the bass off of the floor gives a suck out somewhere between 100 and 200 hz. Good old Alison proved that in the 70s. YMMV
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Old 22nd December 2016, 10:00 PM   #18
crash999 is offline crash999
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I will try the system on the floor, its set on stands about 10cm up.
The latest JBL 15" speakers are beyond my budget but very nice,
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Old 22nd December 2016, 11:49 PM   #19
pos is online now pos  Europe
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The fact that the 2123H sits in such a small baffle might not help here.
Your crossover frequency is probably right were the baffle step takes place, making it difficult to measure and build an adequate crossover (which would of course require non textbook filters and EQs, which most probably implies a digital crossover, at least during the design stage)
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Old 23rd December 2016, 06:02 AM   #20
whgeiger is offline whgeiger  United States
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Default P-Audio 12"

Quote:
Originally Posted by crash999 View Post
I have constructed a 4 way system using JBL speakers, JBL 2245, JBL 2123, JBL 2405, and JBL 2405.
With the recent change of DAC to a Level 4 Lampizator the sound is good but I feel the JBL 2123 is the weak link in the chain.
Iím looking for mid Bass drivers to cross from the 2245s at 160Hz to the JBL 2450s at 800Hz.
>snip<
Alternative Candidate:

SD12-1000EL

About $200 USD

Regards,

WHG
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File Type: pdf SD12-1000EL7.pdf (103.5 KB, 31 views)
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