Newbie here, so this is probably a dumb question.
Everyone is building speakers out of MDF, using a router to cut an indentation for the flange, so the drivers are flush.
Wouldn't it be easier and more precise to just cut holes, surface mount the drivers, and then add an extra layer the same thickness as the flange with a larger hole? You could even use hardwood for the outer layer, and it would double as your veneer.
Everyone is building speakers out of MDF, using a router to cut an indentation for the flange, so the drivers are flush.
Wouldn't it be easier and more precise to just cut holes, surface mount the drivers, and then add an extra layer the same thickness as the flange with a larger hole? You could even use hardwood for the outer layer, and it would double as your veneer.
Sure Could!
Easier? Maybe Not.
I think it would be more difficult to get 2 holes in a sequence to line up with multiple drivers so that all of your edges line up.
I have a Jasper Jig that makes cutting holes very simple in 1/16" increments.
I also find that figured veneers are easier to find than 1/4" thick thin stock that is figured.
Whatever Floats Your Boat
Easier? Maybe Not.
I think it would be more difficult to get 2 holes in a sequence to line up with multiple drivers so that all of your edges line up.
I have a Jasper Jig that makes cutting holes very simple in 1/16" increments.
I also find that figured veneers are easier to find than 1/4" thick thin stock that is figured.
Whatever Floats Your Boat
You certainly could do what you suggest but if the design is not a single full-ranger, each of the drivers, woofer, midrange and tweeter, for instance, will likely have different flange thicknesses, so you would not be able to perfectly match those with only one thickness of overlaid hardwood (the differences in flange thicknesses may be small in some cases, however).
Paul
Paul
Well what are you using to cut? if it's not a router then you're going to get a pretty ordinary edge.
If you don't have a router then buy one.
Putting a second layer of hardwood could be problematical. MDF, like plywood, is dimensionally stable, hardwood is not, it will expand and contract based on the changes in atmospheric moisture. The expansion won't be along the grain, but across it. Even glued down on one side - which creates an unbalanced situation - it is still going to be subject to moisture changes. Will that desire to expand and contract effect the glue bond and the mdf panel to which it is adhered? Maybe not, but I wouldn't risk it.
Yes, there will be a good chance of the wood splitting.
If you want a solid wood baffle on a MDF or BB box, the best solution is a floating baffle. Install the solid wood baffle on the substrate baffle with bolts and threaded inserts from behind. Be sure the holes through the substrate are slightly oversized and a gasket is used.
Either way, a Jasper jig and router is the best way to cut the holes.
Doing it conventionally means I have to set my router bit depth exactly - and exactly match it later unless I do all holes (on all speakers) at the same time. So far, this has been a problem for me, but I will get better the more I do.
Doing it in 2 layers means I make half as many cuts per piece, and have half as many chances to make a mistake and throw a piece out.
2 layers means I can fully assemble a speaker without the 2nd layer, and then just add the 2nd layer, already finished. With veneer or paint, I need to remove the drivers (or not put them in to start) to do the finishing work. Then I have to fish my crossover through the drive holes, hope it is attached correctly, then seal the drivers in place.
Doing it conventionally means I have to set my router bit depth exactly - and exactly match it later unless I do all holes (on all speakers) at the same time. So far, this has been a problem for me, but I will get better the more I do.
Doing it in 2 layers means I make half as many cuts per piece, and have half as many chances to make a mistake and throw a piece out.
2 layers means I can fully assemble a speaker without the 2nd layer, and then just add the 2nd layer, already finished. With veneer or paint, I need to remove the drivers (or not put them in to start) to do the finishing work. Then I have to fish my crossover through the drive holes, hope it is attached correctly, then seal the drivers in place.
Veneer is so much thinner, it should split much easier, and can also bubble and warp and do all kinds of things thin hardwood can't. I would think if veneer works, thin hardwood should work too.
I would need to router a place for the flange to sit in the floating baffle, right? This seems much harder (but I still like the idea of solid wood vs veneer).
Can you explain the gasket? Is this a gasket around the driver or just something between layers? What is it for?
Veneer is much more stable than hardwood, it shouldn't split.
Yes, you would still need a plunge router.
Gasket for the drivers and in between the solid wood baffle and baffle underneath, to prevent air leaks from the enclosure.
I like this type of lamination, bvbellomo.
It is NOT easier than routing+veneering a pure MDF cabinet. Laminating with hardwood is roughly the same level of difficulty, plus takes a lot longer*.
For me, the benefit (and why I've wrapped a few cabinets in a 10mm 'veneer'**) is that a decent layer of hardwood can take a beating, whereas a standard 0.3mm veneer looks bad if if you make any mistakes, scratch it or ding the corners. I also like the warm, workaday look of recycled wood, whereas I think veneers can look a bit artificial / too neat / sterile.
In my experience, the moisture changes (swelling) simply aren't a problem, but:
1) I use seasoned (recycled) wood***
2) I oil the finished cabinets (use linseed, baby oil, whatever; anything that keeps water out)
In my experience, even all-timber cabinets are fine. I once built speakers with (redgum) slab for fronts and recycled 2"x4" for the rest. I oiled them, and kept them for about 15 years. They were stored in a leaky shed for part of that time, experiencing temperatures from 0 to >40 degrees (Centigrade: I'm not from Myanmar, Liberia or the USA) and they still hadn't warped or split at all when I gave them away a few months ago.
*I recommend gluing, clamping/weighting and leaving overnight each board that you add ...so total gluing time might be a couple of weeks per cabinet.
Use a LOT of clamps.
If you glue down a board onto your MDF core without clamping down a tiny, barely noticed bit of cupping or bowing, you'll be annoyed at the end, when that tiny 0.5mm gap suddenly seems very obvious.
**my new favourite material is 10mm hardwood that's been milled down from old fence palings. I've been getting this stuff from a flooring shop. Good if you like a rustic finish. You have to over-purchase if you're fussy (e.g. buy 40m and you'll get about 10m of well matched dark wood for one project, about 10m of well matched pale wood for another, and have 20m left over)
***some non-recycled timber might be fine too, but I don't have much personal, practical knowledge for this application.
The only time I've had timber swell & split is when I had the opposite of these two points - a project using new benchtop 'slabs', which I only half-finished, so I never oiled it.
It is NOT easier than routing+veneering a pure MDF cabinet. Laminating with hardwood is roughly the same level of difficulty, plus takes a lot longer*.
For me, the benefit (and why I've wrapped a few cabinets in a 10mm 'veneer'**) is that a decent layer of hardwood can take a beating, whereas a standard 0.3mm veneer looks bad if if you make any mistakes, scratch it or ding the corners. I also like the warm, workaday look of recycled wood, whereas I think veneers can look a bit artificial / too neat / sterile.
In my experience, the moisture changes (swelling) simply aren't a problem, but:
1) I use seasoned (recycled) wood***
2) I oil the finished cabinets (use linseed, baby oil, whatever; anything that keeps water out)
In my experience, even all-timber cabinets are fine. I once built speakers with (redgum) slab for fronts and recycled 2"x4" for the rest. I oiled them, and kept them for about 15 years. They were stored in a leaky shed for part of that time, experiencing temperatures from 0 to >40 degrees (Centigrade: I'm not from Myanmar, Liberia or the USA) and they still hadn't warped or split at all when I gave them away a few months ago.
*I recommend gluing, clamping/weighting and leaving overnight each board that you add ...so total gluing time might be a couple of weeks per cabinet.
Use a LOT of clamps.
If you glue down a board onto your MDF core without clamping down a tiny, barely noticed bit of cupping or bowing, you'll be annoyed at the end, when that tiny 0.5mm gap suddenly seems very obvious.
**my new favourite material is 10mm hardwood that's been milled down from old fence palings. I've been getting this stuff from a flooring shop. Good if you like a rustic finish. You have to over-purchase if you're fussy (e.g. buy 40m and you'll get about 10m of well matched dark wood for one project, about 10m of well matched pale wood for another, and have 20m left over)
***some non-recycled timber might be fine too, but I don't have much personal, practical knowledge for this application.
The only time I've had timber swell & split is when I had the opposite of these two points - a project using new benchtop 'slabs', which I only half-finished, so I never oiled it.
Right now, I am still using commercially made speakers, despite having built prototypes that sounded better. They are veneered and looked great initially, but are now so full of dings and dents they look like crap. This is in a house that has 2 adults, and never had children.
I could use something other than wood for the outer layer, something more stable, such as metal or glass.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
If i remember, that's how I made mine:
The Big'un - A Large Mono Loudspeaker
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/217893-bigun-audio-nirvana-super-15-a.html
If I do glass, there is a shop on my street that would probably charge me $20 a baffle for anything I could draw or template.
Aluminum and steel are easier for me than wood - it takes a lot longer, but it is impossible to mess up unless you measure wrong. I can throw a steel speaker through a 2 story window and have less damage than my wife stubbing her toe on a veneer speaker.
I'm intrigued that experienced people like you have experienced the opposite of what I have. Whilst I respect the craftsmanship and experience evanc's website demonstrates, I think there are exception to almost everything.
There are a few commercial examples that seem to refute the dogmatism that wood will swell "no matter what" - boutique companies, such as Sierra Brooks and OMA did build / still build with solid timber. I've not heard of their stuff disintegrating due to changing humidity.
Oswalds Mill Audio - Imperia | OMA Loudspeakers
The linked speakers are aesthetically up my alley. I would be sad to hear that they split apart the next time it rained:
https://www.fernandroby.com/products/details/the-beam-tower-speakers
I'm not 100% sure why my own low-skilled efforts have been an exception to the "no matter what" lore, but I suspect that my preference for old (recycled) wood may be a factor.
Most research on timber is focused on harvesting and processing, so there is good info on % shrinkage when drying green (freshly killed) timber, but there doesn't seem to be any research on the stability of reclaimed timber that has been dead for a long time.
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.