The inspiration is the seas a26 kit (smooth 10" crossing to a single capped tweet).
I think the b102 can be run wide open with a notch.
I figure sensitivity matches with a eminence b102 and a morel cat378 (with 5.6uF).
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/horn-tweeters/morel-cat378-morel-horn-tweeter/
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Legend_B102.pdf
If notch 2,800hz for the woofer (10uF + .33mH), both can be 6db down around 2,000 and have matching sensitivities (around 92db).
And you can even slide the tweet back if time alignment is your cup of tea.
Whatcha think ?
I think the b102 can be run wide open with a notch.
I figure sensitivity matches with a eminence b102 and a morel cat378 (with 5.6uF).
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/horn-tweeters/morel-cat378-morel-horn-tweeter/
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Legend_B102.pdf
If notch 2,800hz for the woofer (10uF + .33mH), both can be 6db down around 2,000 and have matching sensitivities (around 92db).
And you can even slide the tweet back if time alignment is your cup of tea.
Whatcha think ?
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The 94dB Eminence B102 is one of those classic drivers, IMO. AFAIK, it's actually a favourite of bass guitarists. But has found a modified implementation in the Zu Omen and Tekton Lore. The 90dB Eminence Alpha 10 with a 0.5mH bass coil is another way to get to a similar place in the Two Pi speaker.
Zu use an eminence ASD 1001 in some version with a Supertweeters | Eminence Speaker, on a mere capacitor crossed quite high.
I'm not sure I like single capacitor crossovers much, but yes, I think you can get this working. BTW, eminence measure wall-mounted, so the bass might be a struggle running fullrange.
Zu use an eminence ASD 1001 in some version with a Supertweeters | Eminence Speaker, on a mere capacitor crossed quite high.
I'm not sure I like single capacitor crossovers much, but yes, I think you can get this working. BTW, eminence measure wall-mounted, so the bass might be a struggle running fullrange.
Attachments
The Auratone monitor is also something like that but with a 12" midwoofer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atth_HfC_AI&list=RDatth_HfC_AI#t=3
Regards
Charles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atth_HfC_AI&list=RDatth_HfC_AI#t=3
Regards
Charles
>>> Whatcha think ?
It will certainly make music. Angling the speaker will help find the sweet spot as the woofer's dispersion comes into play. Set it and forget it.
I just purchased the Eminence Beta 10A to mate with a Dayton compression tweeter (mylar version) in the JBL clone waveguide. Using the standard Eminence 1,600kHz crossover. Sitting it on top of H-frames. I'm hoping for loud!
Let us know how the refined Morel mates with the beastly, but lovable, Eminence.
It will certainly make music. Angling the speaker will help find the sweet spot as the woofer's dispersion comes into play. Set it and forget it.
I just purchased the Eminence Beta 10A to mate with a Dayton compression tweeter (mylar version) in the JBL clone waveguide. Using the standard Eminence 1,600kHz crossover. Sitting it on top of H-frames. I'm hoping for loud!
Let us know how the refined Morel mates with the beastly, but lovable, Eminence.
If I were you, I would use PCD7 to simulate the effect of a series inductor for baffle step along with a parallel notch filter for the 2.8k peak; that should work very well for the bass crossover. If you can in fact reach your target rolloff for the tweeter with a single capacitor, then adjust the z alignment of the tweeter until the phase response of both drivers matches up. I could even give it a shot if you like.
question is how mutch you like directivity in your speakers?
there are plenty even larger than 10" woofers that can go up to past 2.5 khz if you measure them dead on axis.
however, off axis response and the offaxis response refelcting and re-mixing from walls and objects make a significant difference.
usually the 6.5" is the maximum suggested by me for a 2 way speaker, crossed no higher than ~ 2 khz is, or preferably less than that if the tweeter can handle it.
and it should.
then, if you look at 15 and 30 degree offaxis response curves you will see that most proper 6.5" ers do hold up well in that region too.
allso worth mentioning cone breakup, and intereference from non-linear distortsion of cone movement. the larger it gets, and the higher the reqvency, the more you have out of that. some of that can be healed with the back-to-back isobaric setup, that can do wounders in this field. but lobing and directivity issues still remain.
so all in all, i would not use a 10" woofer in a 2 way system, unless i had a tweeter that can be crossed say.. at 1.5 khz.
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/prestige/pdfdatasheet/h1189_27tdfc_datasheet.pdf
thisone with a 2nd rder filter will take 1500 hz as crossover point.
or maybe to be on the safe side of things go for 3rd order if you want them to be louder.
gotta protect them tweeters you know.
there are plenty even larger than 10" woofers that can go up to past 2.5 khz if you measure them dead on axis.
however, off axis response and the offaxis response refelcting and re-mixing from walls and objects make a significant difference.
usually the 6.5" is the maximum suggested by me for a 2 way speaker, crossed no higher than ~ 2 khz is, or preferably less than that if the tweeter can handle it.
and it should.
then, if you look at 15 and 30 degree offaxis response curves you will see that most proper 6.5" ers do hold up well in that region too.
allso worth mentioning cone breakup, and intereference from non-linear distortsion of cone movement. the larger it gets, and the higher the reqvency, the more you have out of that. some of that can be healed with the back-to-back isobaric setup, that can do wounders in this field. but lobing and directivity issues still remain.
so all in all, i would not use a 10" woofer in a 2 way system, unless i had a tweeter that can be crossed say.. at 1.5 khz.
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/prestige/pdfdatasheet/h1189_27tdfc_datasheet.pdf
thisone with a 2nd rder filter will take 1500 hz as crossover point.
or maybe to be on the safe side of things go for 3rd order if you want them to be louder.
gotta protect them tweeters you know.
true, just cause a 10" measures up there, doesn't mean it is doing a good job up there.
Found that out with my 6.5" sf over the 8" sf both crossed at 2khz (24db active) to a $25 Dayton horn loaded dome. But the 6.5" lost it beyond 5' for me with it and me sitting on the floor.
You are right on the 10" dispersion, but I think the whizzer helps as it almost adds an octave of dispersion to 8" drivers.
I've been itching to try that morel, eventhough in general I'm against ferrofluid.
I'd been looking for a woof with a smooth roll off that would role into that tweet for a while.
Otherwise my 6.5" sf, but I'd have to induct them (as an mtm) with their gaining Zcurve to the morel. And 2 of the 6.5" sf would be 96db (4ohm) compared to the 92-93db morel. And I'd need some way to slide the tweeter back for a test to get it time aligned (6db filter).
Something like the Lipinski L707 (6db sloped).
or the earthworks 6.3
Just thinking something like the tekton uruz loudspeaker would be easy to make, but with the now qts .39 B102 driver that would need a 6db tweet near 2khz. I believe the uruz used the older b102 that went way higher due to the 60 oz magnet (and thusly the lower qts). But the newer (current b102) would make more bass, 2.3ft3 tuned @ F3 = Fs = 50hz).
Found that out with my 6.5" sf over the 8" sf both crossed at 2khz (24db active) to a $25 Dayton horn loaded dome. But the 6.5" lost it beyond 5' for me with it and me sitting on the floor.
You are right on the 10" dispersion, but I think the whizzer helps as it almost adds an octave of dispersion to 8" drivers.
I've been itching to try that morel, eventhough in general I'm against ferrofluid.
I'd been looking for a woof with a smooth roll off that would role into that tweet for a while.
Otherwise my 6.5" sf, but I'd have to induct them (as an mtm) with their gaining Zcurve to the morel. And 2 of the 6.5" sf would be 96db (4ohm) compared to the 92-93db morel. And I'd need some way to slide the tweeter back for a test to get it time aligned (6db filter).
Something like the Lipinski L707 (6db sloped).
or the earthworks 6.3
Just thinking something like the tekton uruz loudspeaker would be easy to make, but with the now qts .39 B102 driver that would need a 6db tweet near 2khz. I believe the uruz used the older b102 that went way higher due to the 60 oz magnet (and thusly the lower qts). But the newer (current b102) would make more bass, 2.3ft3 tuned @ F3 = Fs = 50hz).
I've given a bit of thought about baffle step.
Maybe a baffle step woofer.
2 x b102 in a .707 qtc box needs a box 27" tall x 17" deep x 11" wide (F3 = 90hz).
These are the golden ratios (I like so much).
And it makes the box high enough to place a tweet on it.
Now, if the box is 11" wide, I figure F3 baffle step would be 4560/11"=414hz, then F6 at 212hz. So check my math, would I need a 6.5mH on an 8 ohm speaker to make a pole of 200hz for the baffle step woofer ?
Not a cheap option ($85 woof + $27 erse super Q inductor), but less distortion (less excursion modulating the voice) instead of merely boosting the bass with a circuit or equalizer.
My box would be 4' from a side wall and backing up to a double wide window, so I need all 6db of bass boost.
Norman
Maybe a baffle step woofer.
2 x b102 in a .707 qtc box needs a box 27" tall x 17" deep x 11" wide (F3 = 90hz).
These are the golden ratios (I like so much).
And it makes the box high enough to place a tweet on it.
Now, if the box is 11" wide, I figure F3 baffle step would be 4560/11"=414hz, then F6 at 212hz. So check my math, would I need a 6.5mH on an 8 ohm speaker to make a pole of 200hz for the baffle step woofer ?
Not a cheap option ($85 woof + $27 erse super Q inductor), but less distortion (less excursion modulating the voice) instead of merely boosting the bass with a circuit or equalizer.
My box would be 4' from a side wall and backing up to a double wide window, so I need all 6db of bass boost.
Norman
the problem is you would have to smooth out the impedance curve.
it would require a notch fitler tuned at FS.
and it would be impractical.
the usual solution is to design a verry narrow box, then you need the BSDC at higher freqvency, so you don'thave to worry about the impedance bump at FS, only the rising impedance curve due to the vioce coil inductance, witch can be combated with a zobel network.
or just be more of a DIY guy, and make it bi-amped.
use an active corssover for BSC.
it would require a notch fitler tuned at FS.
and it would be impractical.
the usual solution is to design a verry narrow box, then you need the BSDC at higher freqvency, so you don'thave to worry about the impedance bump at FS, only the rising impedance curve due to the vioce coil inductance, witch can be combated with a zobel network.
or just be more of a DIY guy, and make it bi-amped.
use an active corssover for BSC.
Not bad ideas.
I forgot about the big zpeak at fsb (90hz).
Did the active crossover thing.
Now i''m going for more transparency, full range plus tweet, time alignment.
Maybe just run 1 driver on the 17" wide baffle (11" deep x 27" tall, qtc .577) and add some eq, either 10 band eq or boost bass using my good sounding onkyo receiver.
That would save $100 per speaker.
Norman
I forgot about the big zpeak at fsb (90hz).
Did the active crossover thing.
Now i''m going for more transparency, full range plus tweet, time alignment.
Maybe just run 1 driver on the 17" wide baffle (11" deep x 27" tall, qtc .577) and add some eq, either 10 band eq or boost bass using my good sounding onkyo receiver.
That would save $100 per speaker.
Norman
If high efficiency isn't a big factor, there's lots of better 10" woofer out there to meet your goals yet cheaper than the A26.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...rless-sls-830668-10-woofer-coated-paper-cone/
Wouldn't even need a notch and will dig much deeper than the B102.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...rless-sls-830668-10-woofer-coated-paper-cone/
Wouldn't even need a notch and will dig much deeper than the B102.
Yes, the effiencies don't match up but the bass extension is there.
EQ the B102 to get that deep and you're using just as much current AND xmax is a serious consideration as well.
Either way, sounds like a great speaker with excellent male vocal clarity if you can get good phase alignment at the xo.
EQ the B102 to get that deep and you're using just as much current AND xmax is a serious consideration as well.
Either way, sounds like a great speaker with excellent male vocal clarity if you can get good phase alignment at the xo.
Thanks. It finally dawned on me to combine the 2.
I've been on a quest for a 6db time aligned setup (well woof plus single capped tweet).
Seems the devore fidelity orangutan uses that morel, I could be wrong.
And they use a different seas a26, now unavailiable.
And probably 12db crossover, maybe more, maybe asymmetrical.
I'm not too worried about low bass.
I'm only seeking sealed f3 just under 100hz.
Lol, better ?
Too many variables.
I listen at lower volumes and getting into jazz vocal stuff.
But i'm always trying different stuff.
Currently listening to a rat shack rca pro cs550 with lineaum tweeter, straight off amp, no eq, silver cat 5 Chris vh speaker wire.
I've been on a quest for a 6db time aligned setup (well woof plus single capped tweet).
Seems the devore fidelity orangutan uses that morel, I could be wrong.
And they use a different seas a26, now unavailiable.
And probably 12db crossover, maybe more, maybe asymmetrical.
I'm not too worried about low bass.
I'm only seeking sealed f3 just under 100hz.
Lol, better ?
Too many variables.
I listen at lower volumes and getting into jazz vocal stuff.
But i'm always trying different stuff.
Currently listening to a rat shack rca pro cs550 with lineaum tweeter, straight off amp, no eq, silver cat 5 Chris vh speaker wire.
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Having 2*18" equed (or possible 4*18") in IB I'm also))
I had bought a pair of Wavecor TW030WA11-01 on sale without a specific goal..
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