10" woof plus single capped morel cat378

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Nope.
I can ask the shop.

Tweet hooked up, nice.

Yea, time alignment !!!!!

I always thought a cap pushes a tweet back.
Tweet sounds best 2" behind front baffle, and b102 is not flush mounted.

Listening to einaudi "elements" cd.

B102 will take a while to break in, suspension seems stiff.
 
Nice project norman. I hope you enjoy it!

I have a question, I can't tell the difference between various 10" Eminence drivers. I purchased the Beta 10A (and think it sounds rough around the edges when crossed at 1600Hz to a compression driver). Other than cosmetics, does anyone know what the difference is between:

Eminence Beta 10A
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_10A.pdf

Eminence CA10-8
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Legend_CA10_8.pdf

The Eminence B102 used for this project varies drastically from BP102 so I was wondering why the Beta 10A and CA10-8 were so similar. I'd love to know if anyone has any insight into this. Thanks!
 
I don't think the stock ~1.2mH/10uF lowpass of Eminence's generic 1K6 network can take care of Beta10's rise and peak. Ask for a solution - it might be as simple as paralleling another cap across the 10uF cap.

look at the network below - that woofer has a similar rise - your generic Eminence's 1K6 network's highpass can roll-in around 1K2 and has no EQ for CD waveguide

fetch
 
Last edited:
Thank you freddi! I agree, the crossover I'm using did not reduce the peaky Beta 10A which is why the CA10-8 'might' be an easier driver to work with. It appears to have a reduced peak. I can't see struggling with the Beta 10A (unless getting more creative with the crossover) when the CA10-8 might do the trick. Any ideas?

I EQ the compression driver with various caps ranging from 1uf to 4uf and seem to settle on 2uf or 3uf most of the time with the drivers I bought. An L-pad is a must.
 
Last edited:
I would first alligator lead clip a 20uF film cap across the 1K6's 10uF to get 30uF and listen

then see if most of the Econowave highpass parts would fit on the Eminence board. I see 8uF and 22uF on my sample of the 1K6 network ("tan" upper surface board). The late Zilch's highpass used smaller caps to compensate for constant directivity waveguide characteristics. Old school horns often had long slowly expanding "neck" which in a sense, concentrated the upper odtave energy into a narrow beam, thus providing acoustic EQ. That can sound dull off axis or even on axis.

(that Faital Pro tractris horn looks really cool)

you could pull : 8uF/0.35mH/22uF out of the 1K6 board and put in the highpass
plus CD-EQ parts of that Econowave board. The 8uF cap position would hold the 5uF cap, the 22uF cap's
position, the 1.5uF cap paralleled with the resistor. The 16 ohm resistor could go across the tweeter "out" ternminals

cSAR69X.jpg


btw- one place where the stock EM 1K6 highpass will work would be with a K-tube. You could roll a paper K-tube ~5.3" long, 1" inside diameter, cut with scissors to approximate a 1/2 ellipse slot - tape that onto your compression driver. Aim the tube up about 20-30 degrees.
 
Last edited:
I doubt i have it broken in yet.
Considering how much i've spent on tang bands, this $85 is great !!!

But it is a system used with the tweet.
I like the whizzer helping the 10 to disperse like an 8" and knocking down the presence region.

I have not even added stuffing to box nor tried to notch its peak @ 2800.
Seeing freddyi's plot, i bet the peak sitting back at 10' is lower than measure at 3'.

It is a beefy driver, cast frame, excellent value.

I'm sure the seas a26 would sound better, but it would need a bigger box (assuming .707 or 4th order ported) and it costs just under twice as much. Then I'd need to fart around with dialing in the tweet also. And I'd be paranoid it would get damaged.


I don't know why more of us havn't played with this driver.

Norman
 
Last edited:
Sweet.
I'm considering the b102 for a Lore-type diy tower. Do you think I should get the older model or the current one?
Also, I'd be using my electronic crossover and bi-amping. I don't know anything about passive crossovers.
With my el. xo, do I need to worry about things like BSC everyone's talking about?
Sorry for the newb questions.
 
I didn't try the current B102 until putting it a very small K-coupler. The old version had a 56oz magnet vs 45 or so for new (both versions' magnets look identical) and Qts ~0.23

going by weight, I suspect some of Zu's custom versions use the smaller magnet - what does that do to their FR?

The new (like about 8 years old now?) B102 pretty much takes care of the baffle step - -Norm - would you agree ?

old B102 - fake "druid" pipe
adbszIK.jpg


old B102 - new home - something like this would make a great drum machine speaker - lots of
impact with no visible cone movement
nlAMH1Z.jpg


Old B102 vs New - on axis response
thrVQJG.gif
 
Last edited:
I think you can only get the newer one.
And yes, i boost bass through receiver.
But i listen at low volumes and back up to a double wide window.

Tekton uses 12db crossovers i think, tricky with the increasing Z curve.

I think newer b102 is a better option for diy.
Why have a 10" go so high when qts makes for no bass ?

Dispersion and breakup modes, just because a drivers measures flat up there, doesn't mean it sounds good up there.

Zu's tweaked in the cone and surround also.

Again, this is a 10" 2 way in the spirit of old designs.

I'm on the fence wether to build another speaker or try more b102s to make more tactile midbass further away than 4'.
 
What I can't wrap my head around is that the Lore, which is said to use the older version B102, is incredibly dynamic and gets down into the low 30s without boosting the bass. Albeit in a large enclosure.
I wonder if all that's possible with the newer version B102?
I'm not looking to play that high, I'm crossing over either around 1.6 - 1.8 khz to a SB29 or even lower to a 2 or 3" full ranger.
(I'm using my Ashly XR-1001 el. xo with 24 db slopes)
Just mainly looking for very dynamic bass and efficiency.
 
since B102 is for bass guitar use, and a lot of modern bassists use a tweeter with round wound strings (I personally dislike most of that sound and avoid any music using it) then the current version probably makes marketing sense. I think the double roll suspension is better damped than the old multi-pleat surround.
 
does Tekton use a hybrid model B102 - old magnet + new cone/surround ? are there any published tests to give clues? - I see a review about a kick drum punching one in the gut - I've never heard that from a 10" speaker - even real kick drums don't always have a lot of punch - - maybe a good 33" marching drum beat hard. maybe that Audax tweeter gives it that sense of speed. - I'm not familiar with Phil Collins' work YouTube
 
Last edited:
lol, I'm in a big letter L shaped room 24 x 24 with a 12 x 12 cut out of it.

30hz, from a 10" not even on the floor ?
8db down at 30hz ? (compared to 60hz), that's no bass to me.
Tekton Design 8.1T Measurements | Tektondesign's Blog
9db down at 27hz = lean bass.

But I'm in a big room sitting 12' away also, so I need double 15's minimum for ok bass.

Punch in the gut bass ?
12" full range crossed at 150hz to 2 x 15" doesn't do it.
same 2 x 15" crossed 24db @ 750hz, that does.

Something about cone area / distance / and the frequency range.

My 10" goes further for punching bass than the 8" did (5' versus 3-4'), same setup.
 
you could easily use 4- strong 15 per side in a room that size - not sure how it would focus but there would be air excited when needed. At 150, your 12 did not have enough "kick". I really think the Karlson type excel there - of course, only so much can be done in a small package. 2-K15's per side have a lot of kick but who wants a 45 inch wide speaker which still needs a subwoofer for the lower octaves.

do you have any drum recordings to recommend? I always suggest Steve Clarke's CD "Solo Drums" which is multi-mic-ed pretty well. Some of Charly Antolini's CD's should have good kick and hit - I don't like the sound of the electric bass on "Knock-out" -wish there were a good upright bass - there's too much "lead bass" these days - leave that for guitars and horn players.
 
I don't have many drummy stuff, not my thing.

I think of dance music, like 90s stuff.

I thought of running a woofer with the b102/morel, single inductor it by trying what seems best to me.
Like a baffle step woofer.
I have the bass at +6 so I figure a woofer 98db ?
I thought of 4 more b102 and remove the sub, but that ain't cheap.

I could run my eminence with an inductor and run them with the b102.

I liked running the 15s in parallel with the 12" fane, used a 10 band eq to make it blend.
That had BASS !!!!!!!!!!!
 
The biggest hurdle to overcome seems to be that massive 12' distance to the speakers.
I'm at 6' from my large NHT towers and when I lean back a foot, the impact vanishes, but when I lean forward a foot it gets even better than at the listening position.

Have you tried putting smaller subs right behind the listening position / couch?

Anyway, I've been itching to try my hand at a large 2 way using the B102, so this thread is very informative!
Norman, would love to see some pics of what you end up with.
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.