Bass Drivers - performance/$

[ShapeS]

Hi. I have been looking to buy some bass drivers (say; 300mm subs). I have had info on JBL, Fostex, Scan Speak, Visaton, and many others, that I have eliminated for various reasons.

Given the price differences of the above examples would you deem one of them to fall into a nice 'sweet spot' for performance? Are there other brands that I should consider? I have assumed, so far, that Fostex and Visaton have good offerings at 300mm.

This is for a stereo 3-way setup I am building with a couple of 200mm Peerless midranges and tweeters that I already have that are decent.

It will also include an electronic xOver (non-DIY, behringer if the budget gets tight, dbx perhaps, any ideas here also?).

Also they must be ** Readily Available in Australia! **

[OMNIFEX]

Not familiar with what's available in your neck of the
woods.

The most I can do is recomend a good woofer that's
not popular in the states. Could be different in Australia


Beyma 15 LX 60.

I'm very happy with the 18 LX 60, and 18 G 550.

If I could get a great deal on the 15 LX 60, I would
buy 8 of these. Got the 18's from Ebay a few years
ago.

If you need the TS, let me know.

[5th element]

Nothing wrong with the peerless XLS range either. If you are using a digital xover then that opens more doors with the peerless that require EQ in certain applications.

[ShapeS]

Thanks guys.
I have seen Beyma, they have a LOT of info about box building, straight out designs anyway. I will have a proper look at what they offer in 300mm.

Peerless may not cut the mustard I don't think (?) I can't remember exactly but I think it was the resonant freq figure (ref: low cut) that turned me away ('bout 19Hz).
It has also been suggested that out of the Danish (d.s.t. at least) the Scan Speak were best for bass (although I have also heard that they - scans - may be overpriced for what they actually are at ~$350AUD)

JBL are quite a leap in price (~$800AUD for 1x 300mm) does anyone know if they are justifiably pricey?

Visaton anyone?

[5th element]

How does a res of 19hz turn you away?
In an elcosure with the XLS and matching passive radiator, with room gain gets you down to 20hz.

[michael]

linkwits designed a no compromise loudspeaker. he use the XLS woofers for the bottom end. he also uses them is a seal sub system.
LOTS of people use them for ultra high end systems. and besides the SS drivers are too expensive for what they are, and u are using peerless for your top end anyway, and they are renowned for their nice bass. look at the XLS, they are very nice in the right application, and since you have an eq they are perfect.

[ShapeS]

How does a res of 19hz turn you away?

I thought it was roughly 2-3x res freq that we use as the indacitive low cut mark. That would mean almost 60Hz at the low end. So I was looking for something lower.

Just out of curiosity how low does it get?

Who is linkwits? Is that the Linkwitz "never need another loudspeaker in your life" design he did? Or someone else?

Thanks for confirming other advice I had about scans being 'not worth the extra' that are asked for them.

[5th element]

Mr Linkwitz is a highly renowned loudspeaker designer

www.linkwitzlab.com

he is one of the best. Generally if he says something is good 99.9% of the time it will be.

Have a look at www.d-s-t.com in the application notes for the XLS series of drivers. In short you get flat to 20hz, considered to be the bottom of the human range.

I will be using XLS10 in sealed with EQ but im waiting for the drivers to arrive. The XLS are one of the lowest distortion drivers out there. Oh and they require tiny boxes too.

In a sealed cabinet you need to add EQ as linkwitz does to get good bass out of them, but you get a box thats 10-15 litres for the 10". The XLS are really designed though for use with the passive radiator if you want to get flat to 20hz.

[454Casull]

Originally posted by ShapeS

I thought it was roughly 2-3x res freq that we use as the indacitive low cut mark. That would mean almost 60Hz at the low end. So I was looking for something lower.

Just out of curiosity how low does it get?

Who is linkwits? Is that the Linkwitz "never need another loudspeaker in your life" design he did? Or someone else?

Thanks for confirming other advice I had about scans being 'not worth the extra' that are asked for them.

Er, no, or else we wouldn't be able to use most tweeters above 3kHz.

http://www.geocities.com/adrian_mack/ - He states that in the room, the sub can play flat to 20Hz at about 112dB.

[ShapeS]

Mr Linkwitz is a highly renowned loudspeaker designer

I thought that's what Michael meant, just checking. linkwits could have been a someone from the forum with a 'no compromise' system. I came across the Linkwitz Orion when I was trying to learn about the linkwitz-riley crossover concept.
I read the page before it had been reviewed and had all the 'last speaker you will ever have' stuff.
The Orion itself is a product with a budget and we don't know if Linkwitz would prefer Peeless in his, if he has a pair himself. It is a huge accolade to have Peerless recommended by him at all. Like you, 'He helped' me want Peerless too.

Have a look at www.d-s-t.com in the application notes for the XLS series of drivers. In short you get flat to 20hz, considered to be the bottom of the human range.

Thats where I found the data and Aus distributor for the mids I have. The chart for the SWR 308 (51 147 NX ALP 4L XLS 8/5 ohm) doesn't seem particularly flat until about 60Hz through 500Hz. That is If I am reading it correctly, and a good chance I am not.

I know that installation, acoustics, and other gear running them will make a significant difference but the data is relevant and I have seen better curves (again if I can see it at all). My aim is to look into the data as best I can for various drivers and get opinions to help me get the low end 'done' and ready to be added to with like drivers..

The XLS are really designed though for use with the passive radiator if you want to get flat to 20hz.

Are they?! I wasn't planning on passive at all.

Er, no, or else we wouldn't be able to use most tweeters above 3kHz.

I don't know exactly what you mean by 'wouldn't be able to use above 3KHz'
Do you mean if their Fs was 3KHz?!

That 2-3x Fs was an indication I picked up somewhere and seems to fit well with a lot of the data I have seen.
i.e Scan Speak Ring Radiator R2904 Fs=520KHz - do I start this at 520-700 and up, or, 1K-3K and up?
Peerless XT25TG-30-04 Fs=500Hz - do I start this at 500-600Hz and up or 1K-3K and up?

Many Morel's have an Fs of 1K. Those that do fall into a super tweeter catogory and probably have quality and flatness to be able to be crossed over at the bare Fs. Then again, spending several hundred dollars on a single tweeter would warrant at least 3 way and hopefully the mids would take the all 1K. Wouldn't I cross them over at 2Kmin, 3 or 4 would be OK if everything else pointed to doing that. Like excellent mids or the 'flatest' flatness being in that region.


I would buy Peerless, especially since there seems to be such good support for them. I have had a thread over at the Asylum as well and have been suggested Adire, and Volt to continue my comparisons.

With the Peerles 308SWR at $215AUD (85GBP, $160US) It is certainly an attractive option.