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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Who makes the lowest distortion speaker drivers
Who makes the lowest distortion speaker drivers
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Old 29th April 2018, 09:55 AM   #1911
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
DBMandrake wrote:
The main disadvantage of a high order filter though is the ringing that it introduces at the crossover frequency. The higher the order the more it rings, and of the classic minimum phase filter topologies only the 1st order doesn't ring.

This is new to me, please tell more about ringing! How does it sound? How does it show up in measurements? My guess is that this is some interference. How can we test it, playing sine at Fxo?
A filter is basically a resonant circuit which can with the application of enough input power be driven into self-oscillation.
This is more evident in analogue synths because in their case self-oscillation is a good thing to achieve those screaming synth lead lines. But of course the onset is gradual from just pure filtering at the set frequency up to the point when all input energy is converted to oscillation at set frequency which in a crossover would be the crossover freq. ie given enough energy a crossover will eventually just howl at the set frequency.
The higher the filters order the easier it is to get the oscillation going with 6dB filters never getting there.

Either way in synthesizers this is a desirable feature while in a crossover it is an annoying fault.
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Old 29th April 2018, 10:15 AM   #1912
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
High frequency beaming of a driver is easy to hear - from one specific listening location you may not notice it except as a general lack of high frequency ambience in the room (poor room power response in the high frequencies) but as soon as you move around a bit you can quickly assess whether a speaker is beaming or not by the change in high frequency response off axis.

It's definitely not something that is "just a visual aberration on a plot". As a fan of large full range drivers I'm acutely aware of what high frequency beaming sounds like and it's the main reason why I tend to fall back to using a (large) full range driver with a tweeter, much to the chagrin of full range purists I'm sure.

A really top notch full range driver can have remarkably good high frequency response that does not require a tweeter and sounds very good - but only on axis. As soon as you move your head out of the vice the results suffer. And nothing can be done about the poor power response at high frequencies that can cause the room to sound unnaturally dead in the treble whilst simultaneously very live at lower frequencies.

This dissonance between the room sounding live at lower frequencies (midrange and down) and dead at high frequencies can become tiring and unnatural after prolonged listening, particularly because the on axis treble response has to be tipped upwards to compensate for the poor power response to get a (very room dependent) subjective balance.
Actually I am using a 3 full range driver that works quite well, I do not sense much off center image shifts, but it would be interesting to plug into a studio and compare. This design was due to a dust cap design change which also reduced beaming but did require an EQ circuit somewhat like OS wave guides. For larger full range drivers, cone shape design is also important.

While I do understand the room has large influence, but this does not change the improvement necessary in driver and loudspeaker design as well as other parts of the playback system.
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Old 29th April 2018, 10:30 AM   #1913
Hydrogen Alex is offline Hydrogen Alex  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post

However crossovers don't just work in the electrical domain, they also work in the driver and acoustic domains, which adds extra dimensions of complexity to the problem...
Well said, totally agree with the above, thanks for posting.
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Old 29th April 2018, 01:18 PM   #1914
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
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Who makes the lowest distortion speaker drivers
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
...As a fan of large full range drivers I'm acutely aware of what high frequency beaming sounds like...
can i then ask your opinion if below SBA dedicated midrange have chance is a useable 88dB sensitive full range driver above say 250Hz. Its because i stumbled over its datasheet this winter and 4 ohms sibling show good distortion figures over at (Link: The MR16P-4 6.5” Satori Midrange from SB Acoustics | audioXpress) so guess for 8 ohm version that it is close to same numbers.

In second below had some fun in Rephase EQ raw curve flat on axis above 900Hz and see how that same EQ looked for 30 and 60 axis and in third below theoretical it looks pass 60 point a little lower than 4kHz and below 20 looks happen above 11kHz.
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Old 29th April 2018, 04:03 PM   #1915
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
A filter is basically a resonant circuit which can with the application of enough input power be driven into self-oscillation.
This is more evident in analogue synths because in their case self-oscillation is a good thing to achieve those screaming synth lead lines. But of course the onset is gradual from just pure filtering at the set frequency up to the point when all input energy is converted to oscillation at set frequency which in a crossover would be the crossover freq. ie given enough energy a crossover will eventually just howl at the set frequency.
The higher the filters order the easier it is to get the oscillation going with 6dB filters never getting there.

Either way in synthesizers this is a desirable feature while in a crossover it is an annoying fault.
This is not actually correct. If the filter is linear then if it does not oscillate at low levels then it cannot oscillate at high levels either. No amount of power input can cause it to oscillate, its not dependent on the power level. For the most part filters used in audio are linear and stable up to any level that they are likely to ever see. Filters are resonant devices, but this is much different than oscillating.
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Old 30th April 2018, 04:17 PM   #1916
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
This is not actually correct.
Fair enough, I assumed they were oscillating since I sometimes use an overdriven filter as a tuneable oscillator in my analogue synth.
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