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Old 16th July 2017, 10:47 AM   #21
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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This design proposal looks strange when you calculate that two of the faitals with baffle step loss accounted for, gives spl just about close to hivi tweeter so there seems no particular reason to perform woofer attenuation for that matter.
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Old 16th July 2017, 09:42 PM   #22
nareshseep is offline nareshseep  Trinidad and Tobago
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Originally Posted by Lojzek View Post
This design proposal looks strange when you calculate that two of the faitals with baffle step loss accounted for, gives spl just about close to hivi tweeter so there seems no particular reason to perform woofer attenuation for that matter.
I agree but a dip in frequency is not something that we should design for but isnt a flat response more beneficial?

Last edited by nareshseep; 16th July 2017 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 17th July 2017, 10:38 AM   #23
Dissi is offline Dissi  Switzerland
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The series resistor in the woofer filter is indeed unusual, and a resistor bypassing the tweeter capacitor is always a bad idea. The reason probably is to prevent the impedance from going too low and to do some response shaping in the bass as well.

I don't get that dip in my simulation of the PlayMax K-01 using the woofer measurements from diBirama: Faital Pro 6FE100
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SimulationPlayMaxK-01.jpg (120.9 KB, 101 views)
File Type: jpg CrossoverPlayMaxK-01.jpg (66.6 KB, 103 views)

Last edited by Dissi; 17th July 2017 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 18th July 2017, 01:04 AM   #24
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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I looked at the FaitalPro 6FE100 and thought I've seen that sort of thing before. It's very similar to the Peerless Nomex 164 aka 830875.
PEERLESS-NOMEX-164

A little more efficient at 90dB, and more of a 0.5 cu feet closed box driver IMO. You usually notch speakers like this at about 4.5kHz= 6uF/0.2mH/2.2R shunt or a RC tank across the bass coil, which is what Troels does to the mid in a 2.5 way.

I think we decided the Troels Nomex 164 could be improved, as it goes. I think you are better off using a MTM style filter. Even if it's laid out TMM.
Attached Images
File Type: png Faital Pro 6FE100 FR.PNG (26.2 KB, 86 views)
File Type: png Peerless 830875.PNG (42.3 KB, 85 views)
File Type: png Troels Nomex 164.PNG (16.3 KB, 86 views)
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Old 18th July 2017, 08:09 AM   #25
pguerin is offline pguerin  France
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I think we decided the Troels Nomex 164 could be improved,
Really ? the best speakers I've had for 5 years now !
I've just increase R1051 to 1.2 ohms and lowered the box tuning to 40 hz from the original design by TG.
They are sounding VERY good IMHO

Construction d'enceintes "Nomex 164" - Le blog de pguerin
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Old 19th July 2017, 02:05 PM   #26
nareshseep is offline nareshseep  Trinidad and Tobago
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I inverted the tweeter polarity and I got a flat frequency response.

Looking to build a TMM speaker system-tnn-cross-corrected-jpg
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File Type: jpg tnn cross corrected.jpg (51.7 KB, 101 views)
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Old 19th July 2017, 02:17 PM   #27
nareshseep is offline nareshseep  Trinidad and Tobago
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Thank you for the explanation, I have been told that mtm designs suffer from phasing issues and tmm is a bit better. I am considering a tmm arrangement with the .5 way woofer in a mltl enclosure and the tweeter and top woofer in a 0.7 sealed enclosure. I am hoping that this will give better transient response overall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
I looked at the FaitalPro 6FE100 and thought I've seen that sort of thing before. It's very similar to the Peerless Nomex 164 aka 830875.
PEERLESS-NOMEX-164

A little more efficient at 90dB, and more of a 0.5 cu feet closed box driver IMO. You usually notch speakers like this at about 4.5kHz= 6uF/0.2mH/2.2R shunt or a RC tank across the bass coil, which is what Troels does to the mid in a 2.5 way.

I think we decided the Troels Nomex 164 could be improved, as it goes. I think you are better off using a MTM style filter. Even if it's laid out TMM.
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Old 19th July 2017, 02:19 PM   #28
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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I'm not surprised about inverting the tweeter polarity. I just simmed your filter. The phase for your tweeter circuit is all over the place! I see no merit in that circuit whatsoever. It's a complete muddle IMO. Troels' circuit looks much nearer where you want to be.

You can use an MTM circuit design even with a TMM. It's simpler IMO. But do what you like. Joe D'Appolito's original MTM design was a 90 degree phase 3rd order butterworth. But you can do butterworth with an MT and MMT as well. It gives a more even power response around the room and off-axis.

Between LR2 and LR4 lies BW3! It's a valid solution, and in essence it just pushes the drivers a bit harder at crossover to fill the inevitable -3dB power hole above and below axis of even order filters. So it sounds more natural in the room. Some drivers play nicely, others don't.
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Last edited by system7; 19th July 2017 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 19th July 2017, 02:20 PM   #29
nareshseep is offline nareshseep  Trinidad and Tobago
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Thanks for the info and the link to diBirama

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissi View Post
The series resistor in the woofer filter is indeed unusual, and a resistor bypassing the tweeter capacitor is always a bad idea. The reason probably is to prevent the impedance from going too low and to do some response shaping in the bass as well.

I don't get that dip in my simulation of the PlayMax K-01 using the woofer measurements from diBirama: Faital Pro 6FE100
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:00 PM   #30
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Here's the sim with any old 6" woofers and 1" tweeter on positive polarity. It's a dreadful tweeter circuit. No real rolloff, and terrible phase. Whatever were you thinking of!

I appreciate the planar tweeter is something else: HiVi RT2C-A Planar Isodynamic Tweeter

But basic principles still apply. I think you must lose the 0.22mH and 12R. The 1uF is evidently just a bit of top end lift.
Attached Images
File Type: png Phase FaitalPro Circuit positive polarity.PNG (15.7 KB, 11 views)
File Type: png Faital Pro 6FE100 FR.PNG (26.2 KB, 15 views)
File Type: png FaitalPro Circuit.PNG (10.8 KB, 18 views)
File Type: png FaitalPro FR positive polarity.PNG (19.8 KB, 21 views)
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Last edited by system7; 19th July 2017 at 03:15 PM.
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