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Old 17th August 2004, 08:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Karoliina
[B]Okay, I tried Python. I agree, it is great calculator
tool and a tool for trying different things.
In that context, Python appears to be excellent,
I will no longer use the KDE calculator now...

However, I still don't think that a such platform is
a good base for a huge program ...
Google is a pretty big program, and it's written in Python. Ditto for the software at Industrial Light and Magic (Star Wars, et cetera).

But have it your way. I am just trying to help.


Quote:
Let me clarify, the program is aimed to be a
calculation program. Not a script or sheet for some platform
such as MS Excel, Gnumeric, Mathlab etc.
Python is perfect for that.

One of the beauties of Python is that it allows you to expose a programatic interface (API) virtually "for free."
How many times have you wanted to do something you know the program you are using can "almost" do, but the program has no interface to do it? For example, maybe you want to optimize over some parameters; You have an idea of what a good design would be (for you), and you want to vary box size, port length, et cetera, et cetera. If the GUI forces you to enter each parameter by hand and inspect the result by eye, such an optimization might take millenia. The GUI designer never thinks of everything. Never. Python truly is "open source." If you can run the program, you can use every feature, any way you want.

I promise to quit campaining now. I'm just being greedy. I wish I had a Python loudspeaker design tool, and I know I'll never have the time or knowledge to write the whole thing from scratch.
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Old 17th August 2004, 09:00 PM   #22
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Just one more comment, and I will let it go, I promise.

I think the best GUI package for Python is wxPython, a Python wrapper around wxWidgets. Download the demo. It's fun to play with. It also demonstrates some interesting Python features.
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Old 18th August 2004, 11:54 AM   #23
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Just a note if all of you weren't already aware, there is already a similar GPL'd project underway that has made significant progress, but I believe the developer has given up. http://gspeakers.sf.net , I've used this program before and I can say it has a lot of potential. Perhaps you can reference it's source to help speed your project along,
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Old 19th August 2004, 04:03 PM   #24
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I just looked at your referenced program. I don't think that the author has given up as his last post was in June and he talks of returning to the program by Spring. It is not a program that appears capable of doing measurements, only using data to generate an optimization. The problem with this approach is that you either have to use others measurements or other software to measure your speakers and individual drivers. I am under the impression that the software being discussed here will be a soup to nuts program. Two options might be to either integrate this portion of the program, if possible, into the current project OR to attempt to contact Mark Zachmann at Eagleware in Georgia who wrote Speaker Workshop and see if he would release his code so that the program could be furthered as he has abandonned the Speaker Workshop project and this is much more advanced in it's abilities than the program you referenced. Just some other thoughts. It may be, however, that building the program from the ground up will allow Karoliina to give it even more flexibility and potential.

Jay
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Old 19th August 2004, 09:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by JMB
It is not a program that appears capable of doing measurements, only using data to generate an optimization.
We don't need another measurement program do we? If the program in question can import measurement files in a format that the existing programs can export, isn't that good enough?
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Old 19th August 2004, 09:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Jones


We don't need another measurement program do we? If the program in question can import measurement files in a format that the existing programs can export, isn't that good enough?
Well, from an Open Source perspective I'd say that the question is "What measurement programs?". Being able to import from some Windows program seems pretty useless, since if you already have one you're not too likely to bother importing into another system.

I've been messing with this problem for a while. Anders Torger has some old MLS code out there (part of his nwfiir tools), and the latest DRC release includes an implementation of Farina's log-swept-sine method, but there is certainly nothing out there that is polished or well-packaged.

I did actually semi-seriously look at gspeakers (and Karolina's project to a lesser degree) with an eye to starting to add some measurement code, but I just don't have the time at the moment. IMHO it's a gaping hole that needs to be filled in order for any open-source project to be anything more than an advanced box modeler.
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Old 20th August 2004, 04:02 PM   #27
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It seems to me to that truly rival the programs out there, a soup to nuts program would be warranted. There are plenty of modelling programs out there, many at the FRD consortium site. Speaker Workshop does the soup to nuts but is limited with regard to alignments and some of the distortion measurement. It seems to me that the way to go would be to allow for one to make one's own measurements (import option available) as measurements made by others are often not reflective of the individual driver that you may have and then the ability to measure allows for modifications within the program based upon actual measurements (in room, if desired).

Ideally, Mark Zachmann would release his code for further development if he is not planning on taking it any further. Then the DIY community could have available to it a program that can rival the professional software out there. In the absence of that, if Karoliina has the interest, knowledge, and time to do so, a soup to nuts program seems most helpful.

I don't mean to be looking a gift horse in the mouth, but why put so much effort into something that is already available? If you want a program that can model with imported data, just go to the FRD Consortium and start downloading...
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Old 20th August 2004, 06:41 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by JMB
I don't mean to be looking a gift horse in the mouth, but why put so much effort into something that is already available? If you want a program that can model with imported data, just go to the FRD Consortium and start downloading...
I believe the goal is to get something that isn't so tied in with Windoz... as good as it maybe, most of the FRD stuff is useless to me.

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Old 20th August 2004, 07:48 PM   #29
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Default I also like C++ and Qt!

Qt is having a most professional look'n'feel

I've made C++ and Qt programs running in WinXP and Linux with no problems
Problems might come porting to Windows when using sound and threads

I've made a C++ program with realtime FFT routines for analyzing and making my soundcard into a active x-over
I have some ideas on making a Qt interface for my active x-over program.

All this I just said to encourage your great work/hobby

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Old 23rd August 2004, 08:07 AM   #30
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Hi Ask,

If you think you would have something to contribute,
feel free to join the project.

Hi Dave,

If you want a Python project (as an additional project), I could create one.
I can't however contribute to it by myself since I don't have time,
but I can host it. I will put CVS server and to our server as soon
as I have time.

New url to speaker designer is by the way:
http://www.katix.org/speakerdesigner

Hi Others,

About do we need yet another program that does measurements?
Yes we do need that.
Other programs are tied to one operating system and they are
not open source, in other words, one can not download them for
free. Or the free edition is limtied to personal non-commercial use.
The intention of this project is to create a free program that
anyone can afford and that ultimately does everything - and
does not cost anything to download and install and everyone can
be audio engineers after that (with some knowledge how to use
the program of course).

The intention is to do a program that
- everyone can use
- that is also available to other operating systems than Windows,
including Linux and MacOSX
- that can model
- can do measurements
- is as sophisticated as possible by utilitizing the knowledge of
the open source community
- that can be used freely commercially without limitations, even
without paying any licenses
- anyone can fix and extend
- is not part of trusted computing initiative (in other words not signed
by Microsoft, ever)
- does not utilize digital rights management
- does not have a dongle protection
- does not have serial code that needs to be entered
- is not limited to one computer
- does not have any maximum processor counts in license agreement
- is not made by a some big corporation
- during its making, none software patents will be appied, all content
is GPL QPL or BSD license or similar license!
- and finally but not least, is completely free

The future is open.

The reason why I initiated the project was that my hobby is
loudspeaker design and I need a such program by myself and
there is no substitute for this available for Linux.

Br,
Karoliina
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