@OP: for such a small room you should be looking at nearfield monitors.
moreover if on a budget, I would honestly hunt on ebay for a pair of old B&W DM302s and a gainclone amplifier and keep $500 for later on when you get a bigger listening space and more DIY time after the grad school.
At that point, since you came to the right place for a timely advice, you should benefit from the progress already made on considering dispersion patterns i.e speaker directivity and build something like LXMinis (or a bigger equivalent if needed) with a digital Xover and multiamp, and call it a day.
I still build box speakers for the fun of it (mostly for others), and still use a pair (of 85L Elsinores), but ever since I got involved with OB/CD etc. I realize this is really "old school" and the same is reflected in the latest pro/commercial developments as well. especially if you are into jazz/blues/vocals/ and such. Good luck.
Hey! I really want to get into DIY also for the fun of it, and I'm too impatient to wait 2 years before getting my hands dirty! Of course when the time comes I will upgrade my system and build more with a bigger budget.
As of now I feel like building the Continuums. I'm thinking if I can get the amplification stage done cheap, I could invest in a pair of FR drivers for a secondary project. One in which I could play around with more innovative cabinets/TL/3d printed modules, as a desktop kind of system.
Coming from a guy who owns Continuums and other speakers, go for it! The Continuums are great speakers.
When one posts in a forum such as this, a lot of opinions are offered; none bad. If you know what you want, go for it. Continuums are great speakers. Period. Are there other great speakers? You bet there are. But you know what you want, so go for it. You won't be sorry.
Enjoy!!!
Mike
You're very welcome. As for tweeters, i made test cabinets just to get general impression of the sound balance. I counted on some issues having in mind the speed of making it and lack of precision in carpentry.
I use Edge for simulating the front baffle. What did you use ? As for baffle step compensation, of course it needs some. This speakers will be listened in room that is roughly 15-16 sq. meters and full BSC (equalizing 200Hz flat with 1000Hz) is a bit too much for me. I found that about 3dB BSC incorporated into the midbass xover works best for me.
I'm reluctant to use tone controls. I would rather add a sub to manage room mods if i thought that would fix the problem - but this goes into the lower mids so i just have to keep trying to make xover with less mH on the midbass. I did make it suit my taste better with 1.6mH (similar topology to what you did) i just need to refine the xover some more to make it flatter.
If i don't get the results that satisfies me i'll just throw nanoDIGI and two amps at it and call it a day.
I use Edge for simulating the front baffle. What did you use ? As for baffle step compensation, of course it needs some. This speakers will be listened in room that is roughly 15-16 sq. meters and full BSC (equalizing 200Hz flat with 1000Hz) is a bit too much for me. I found that about 3dB BSC incorporated into the midbass xover works best for me.
I'm reluctant to use tone controls. I would rather add a sub to manage room mods if i thought that would fix the problem - but this goes into the lower mids so i just have to keep trying to make xover with less mH on the midbass. I did make it suit my taste better with 1.6mH (similar topology to what you did) i just need to refine the xover some more to make it flatter.
If i don't get the results that satisfies me i'll just throw nanoDIGI and two amps at it and call it a day.
Last edited:
musicgeek: FYI..The Continuum speakers are ~83.5 dB sensitivity, and will require 2x more Watts than the Mandolin speakers which are ~86.5 dB sensitivity.
Cambre & Zvu for OT:
1) LR4/LR4 crossover at 1800Hz works better when using a narrow baffle plus offset tweeter, because this higher frequency avoids a major tweeter cabinet edge diffraction bump.
2) Troels site has construction details for a similar 18liter(0.65cuft) cabinet which hits F3 ~44Hz. A cabinet with 0.82cuft internal volume can be tuned down to F3 ~38Hz which I should easily reach with my 1cuft 22" H x 9" W x 13.5" D cabinets.
Cambre & Zvu for OT:
1) LR4/LR4 crossover at 1800Hz works better when using a narrow baffle plus offset tweeter, because this higher frequency avoids a major tweeter cabinet edge diffraction bump.
2) Troels site has construction details for a similar 18liter(0.65cuft) cabinet which hits F3 ~44Hz. A cabinet with 0.82cuft internal volume can be tuned down to F3 ~38Hz which I should easily reach with my 1cuft 22" H x 9" W x 13.5" D cabinets.
Attachments
Sounds like this is going down the Continuum path but have you considered the sopranos?
I saw "limited budget" and immediately these came to mind. The designer says this is one of his better designs. There is also a dedicated sub project designed by Jeff.
If a you want to do a TL design my experience has been that if you put a request on the forum for someone to run the design through the TL worksheets you will get the specs you need. I really liked the TL i did for a different design and the specs were provided to me by GM, a member here.
Regarding the amp, I'm surprised no one has mentioned chip amps (Gainclones). They are outstanding, inexpensive, and simple to build. Many thousands have been built. They are also an extremely useful thing to know about since it is simple to add another channel of amplification if needed.
Non DIY, I use a 90s audiolab. I picked it up for $300 used and its a great amp. It also has a nice phono stage in case you ever want to jump on that bandwagon. I've heard people say good things about the cheap Behringer studio amps.
Personally, I'd do the sopranos or continuums in the spec'd cabinets with a sub or a pair of subs, and a chip amp. I'd also over build the cabinets. Baltic birch, bracing and thick baffles. You will have incredible sound.
By the way, 90 dbs is really loud. Louder then I'm comfortable listening.
I saw "limited budget" and immediately these came to mind. The designer says this is one of his better designs. There is also a dedicated sub project designed by Jeff.
If a you want to do a TL design my experience has been that if you put a request on the forum for someone to run the design through the TL worksheets you will get the specs you need. I really liked the TL i did for a different design and the specs were provided to me by GM, a member here.
Regarding the amp, I'm surprised no one has mentioned chip amps (Gainclones). They are outstanding, inexpensive, and simple to build. Many thousands have been built. They are also an extremely useful thing to know about since it is simple to add another channel of amplification if needed.
Non DIY, I use a 90s audiolab. I picked it up for $300 used and its a great amp. It also has a nice phono stage in case you ever want to jump on that bandwagon. I've heard people say good things about the cheap Behringer studio amps.
Personally, I'd do the sopranos or continuums in the spec'd cabinets with a sub or a pair of subs, and a chip amp. I'd also over build the cabinets. Baltic birch, bracing and thick baffles. You will have incredible sound.
By the way, 90 dbs is really loud. Louder then I'm comfortable listening.
Last edited:
I thought this was an excellent article on bracing written by a mechanical engineer diy audiophile.
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/detailed-look-proper-loudspeaker-cabinet-bracing
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/detailed-look-proper-loudspeaker-cabinet-bracing
Thanx another interesting article. Quite limited scope thou. They also only use the internal air pressure to excite the panels. One thing to take out of the article that is valuable is that the stiffness of the brace makes a significant difference. I always recommend braces that reach across the box to the other side as well as extend to the perpendicular panels -- generically called holy-braces -- the braces are constrained by the other panels.
dave
dave
Hi,
FWIW IME the best used budget amplifier you can buy is a Pioneer A300X.
Wipes the floor with more expensive NADs in both sound and build quality.
(And is far, far cheaper than you could possibly build such quality kit for).
However I'm not sure it was sold in the States, can be found in the UK easily.
With the current state of the used market, you can pick up a very good used
CD player for barely more than a mundane one. I bought a friend the Pioneer
amplifier and a Marantz SE CD player for a grand total of £100. Sounds great.
Speakers are a personal choice, but my vote for a no subwoofer
budget system would be either of these undefinition designs :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy/amiga
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/core-2-way
The above system is bang for buck personified, and will not disappoint.
Its an ideal first system and first speaker build IMHO, it should blow
you away with the sound quality achieved, for much less than budget.
rgds, sreten.
FWIW the Pioneers MM phonostage, if relevant, is more than adequate.
FWIW IME the best used budget amplifier you can buy is a Pioneer A300X.
Wipes the floor with more expensive NADs in both sound and build quality.
(And is far, far cheaper than you could possibly build such quality kit for).
However I'm not sure it was sold in the States, can be found in the UK easily.
With the current state of the used market, you can pick up a very good used
CD player for barely more than a mundane one. I bought a friend the Pioneer
amplifier and a Marantz SE CD player for a grand total of £100. Sounds great.
Speakers are a personal choice, but my vote for a no subwoofer
budget system would be either of these undefinition designs :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy/amiga
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/core-2-way
The above system is bang for buck personified, and will not disappoint.
Its an ideal first system and first speaker build IMHO, it should blow
you away with the sound quality achieved, for much less than budget.
rgds, sreten.
FWIW the Pioneers MM phonostage, if relevant, is more than adequate.
Last edited:
I owned a pair of continuums (with my brother now). I'd suggest you use your budget towards the kairos and sacrifice on the amp. The Satori drivers are outstanding, the better the box and more attention paid to the build will result in them even giving more. The satori drivers will be with you for much longer and will be challanging to replace with another 6+1.
When you move into a larger space you can build the 3 ways.
You can see my feedback on them vs. a sub here.
Jeff B's Woofer Module Complete!!! - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
post 32 and 33.
When you move into a larger space you can build the 3 ways.
You can see my feedback on them vs. a sub here.
Jeff B's Woofer Module Complete!!! - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
post 32 and 33.
@Dave re: B&W DM302s:
and those speakers you have are also under $100 made for you and in the same small size? I am guessing not...
those were probably the best value ever. I am betting even B&W hates any reference to those today because they set expectations for their more expensive lineup and /$ they have a hard time competing with their own legacy. btw I still have a pair of those collecting dust but will be adding a woofer in a TL to them this summer to see what they will add up to, just for the fun of it.
and those speakers you have are also under $100 made for you and in the same small size? I am guessing not...
those were probably the best value ever. I am betting even B&W hates any reference to those today because they set expectations for their more expensive lineup and /$ they have a hard time competing with their own legacy. btw I still have a pair of those collecting dust but will be adding a woofer in a TL to them this summer to see what they will add up to, just for the fun of it.
Cambre & Zvu,
OT...about last OT
--For a 6" + 1" MT the C-to-C separation must be minimized to control lobing.
--With clever driver placement, larger baffles can keep tweeter SPL flat down to 1Khz.
--With clever driver placement, smaller baffles can keep tweeter SPL flat down to 2Khz.
--Optimal Sound Quality requires designing Xover to baffle.
---->Like shifting Xover from 1600Hz to 1800Hz when smaller baffle is used.
Attached sims used for OT discussion.
------
SMART BRACING SHAPES: Tapered rear volumes can reduce resonances without over-stuffing absorption material.
OT...about last OT
--For a 6" + 1" MT the C-to-C separation must be minimized to control lobing.
--With clever driver placement, larger baffles can keep tweeter SPL flat down to 1Khz.
--With clever driver placement, smaller baffles can keep tweeter SPL flat down to 2Khz.
--Optimal Sound Quality requires designing Xover to baffle.
---->Like shifting Xover from 1600Hz to 1800Hz when smaller baffle is used.
Attached sims used for OT discussion.
------
SMART BRACING SHAPES: Tapered rear volumes can reduce resonances without over-stuffing absorption material.
Attachments
You're preaching to the choir. I understand lobing issues and that baffle size and driver placement affects frequency response - that is basic knowledge about loudspeaker designing.
I just asked what simulator do you use when simulating frequency response of any driver on the baffle.
Thanks.
I just asked what simulator do you use when simulating frequency response of any driver on the baffle.
Thanks.
OT
@LineSource
I did a little something with SBA. Xover point at about 2,2KHz, gated, grid 2dB, measured on and off axis. Sounds as good as it measures - smooth and natural. SBacoustics 17NRXC35 and sb29rdc-c0004 sre great drivers and their sound quality is easily in line with Scan Speak classic series - at the very least. They sell at a great price - but for how long, we'll see.
@LineSource
I did a little something with SBA. Xover point at about 2,2KHz, gated, grid 2dB, measured on and off axis. Sounds as good as it measures - smooth and natural. SBacoustics 17NRXC35 and sb29rdc-c0004 sre great drivers and their sound quality is easily in line with Scan Speak classic series - at the very least. They sell at a great price - but for how long, we'll see.
Attachments
Last edited:
Musicgeek.....
Sorry for the delay in responding.
I am not very proficient in expressing audible differences between speakers, but the main criterion for me, after many, many years of speaker building, is "How do the speakers present the musical performance?" It is easy to get bogged down in wanting to achieve the lowest audible octave or expecting extremely precise imaging or a sumptuous spaciousness.
None of the speakers I have built do everything well, but my Continuums have been in use for two months now, and are not in danger of being replaced. They are super musical and their small size suits my limited space room(about 14' x 12'). I have a pair of 10" subs that I built a few years ago that I may try to digitally integrate, however I am not in a hurry since the Continuums do a surprising job in the lower range while positioned about 2' from the front wall.
Some thoughts:
LXmini clone(Vifa TC9/peerless 6.5" nomex). A jaw-dropping presentation, excellent soundstage, imaging. Tight deep bass. Due to the low cost, probably the one I would recommend for starters. Appearance??? These are available if you want to try them.
Frugalhorns. Beautiful 3D-like presentation. Great bang for the buck.
Nao/Orion derivative(8" Vifa, 3" full range, 10" w frame subs) very much like the LX with bigger bass. Even more spacious presentation. Needs a little more room than I have.
Apogee 26" ribbon w/four 6.5" woofers. Next favorite after the Continuums but rather large for my room.
Tabaqs. Another bargain but needs low end reinforcement.
All these and others are sitting in closets and will eventually be pulled out to experiment with, if and when I feel the need. In the meantime, the Continuums have it.
Peter
Sorry for the delay in responding.
I am not very proficient in expressing audible differences between speakers, but the main criterion for me, after many, many years of speaker building, is "How do the speakers present the musical performance?" It is easy to get bogged down in wanting to achieve the lowest audible octave or expecting extremely precise imaging or a sumptuous spaciousness.
None of the speakers I have built do everything well, but my Continuums have been in use for two months now, and are not in danger of being replaced. They are super musical and their small size suits my limited space room(about 14' x 12'). I have a pair of 10" subs that I built a few years ago that I may try to digitally integrate, however I am not in a hurry since the Continuums do a surprising job in the lower range while positioned about 2' from the front wall.
Some thoughts:
LXmini clone(Vifa TC9/peerless 6.5" nomex). A jaw-dropping presentation, excellent soundstage, imaging. Tight deep bass. Due to the low cost, probably the one I would recommend for starters. Appearance??? These are available if you want to try them.
Frugalhorns. Beautiful 3D-like presentation. Great bang for the buck.
Nao/Orion derivative(8" Vifa, 3" full range, 10" w frame subs) very much like the LX with bigger bass. Even more spacious presentation. Needs a little more room than I have.
Apogee 26" ribbon w/four 6.5" woofers. Next favorite after the Continuums but rather large for my room.
Tabaqs. Another bargain but needs low end reinforcement.
All these and others are sitting in closets and will eventually be pulled out to experiment with, if and when I feel the need. In the meantime, the Continuums have it.
Peter
Thanks Peter, that helps a lot!
I'm sold on the Continuum MLTL version, thats going to be my build! Waiting to earn some money to get started on that build!
Once I get out of grad school I should be able to save up some funds and build the Kairos. Till then the Continuum should be a good investment!
In the meanwhile I'm trying to get my hands on some used FR drivers, just so I can experiment and practice building cabinets and hear FR speakers for myself. Maybe FE127E in a Fonken GR might be a good way to get started
Again, really appreciate all the advise, help and teachings!
I'm sold on the Continuum MLTL version, thats going to be my build! Waiting to earn some money to get started on that build!
Once I get out of grad school I should be able to save up some funds and build the Kairos. Till then the Continuum should be a good investment!
In the meanwhile I'm trying to get my hands on some used FR drivers, just so I can experiment and practice building cabinets and hear FR speakers for myself. Maybe FE127E in a Fonken GR might be a good way to get started
Again, really appreciate all the advise, help and teachings!
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.