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Old 19th March 2017, 04:33 PM   #251
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Just to make sure - your measurement is with the mic about 1m more or less on the tweeter axis with a short window of 3 - 5msec? I'm not sure why you are showing a flat response below 100Hz. A little suggestion would be to continue to repeat your measurements until you get exactly the same response each time.

As we continue here, post a xo schematic from XSim so that I'm aware of the changes you are making.

Re the balance, it looks like you need to tame the tweeter some more. Add some more series resistance.

Re the mid, it actually looks a little high as well so if it sounds muted/muffled that sounds more like a quality issue than quantity. So I'm wondering if the mid chamber is overstuffed. I'm not actually sure what you did for stuffing but you might try removing it and comparing.

When making changes, 1 thing that I've found that helps is to make fairly large changes to start off with and compare because that really helps you to identify what it is that the change is affecting. Then once you're attuned to that, then pull back bit by bit until things sound just about right, maybe somewhere in the middle of the 2 extremes or maybe somewhere closer to 1 extreme or the other.

It might also help for me to know what spare parts you have on hand to work with. Perhaps including items from your previous speakers' xo too?

Did you add any insulation to the woofer chamber btw?
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Old 20th March 2017, 08:51 PM   #252
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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Hi jReave, thank you for all the suggestions. I've implemented a few things and the results are looking a lot better.

I'm not sure why the woofer is so flat.. I can't find a window option in HolmIpulse?

1. Removed BAF wadding from the mid chamber. Sound dampening materials still in place.
2. Added a little BAF wadding to the bottom of the woofer chamber.
3. No insulation in the woofer enclosure
4. Mid reversed polarity
5. Replaced R3 (11 ohm) to 6.8 ohm
6. Replaced R8 (3.5 ohm) to 1 ohm

I'm pretty happy with the FR graph and it sounds very nice too!

What do you think?

The two images are the difference between R8 set at 1R or 2R
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Re-Tuning Mid rev.JPG (219.0 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg Re-Tuning Mid rev + 2r.JPG (229.9 KB, 38 views)

Last edited by spark010; 20th March 2017 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 20th March 2017, 10:21 PM   #253
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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Join Date: Oct 2012
So glad they're sounding better. Good job.

At the stage you're at now, the final arbiter are your ears. It doesn't really matter what the graphs look like - if you like the sound of it better 1 way vs the other, then that is the correct way for you in this room with the speakers set up where you have them and sitting where you do. Don't forget that when your ears are listening, you are hearing more than just the on-axis response which is only what you are seeing in the measurements. Mind you 1 of the reasons I chose 2nd order filters all the way around is because they produced a very flat power response as well, or in other words the on-axis and off-axis responses should be pretty similar.

I think of the measurements now as just a tool, as a way to give you a visual reference for the changes you are making, but again, it's your ears, your subjective response that should be making the final call.

I probably have 2 more resistors that I suggest you can play with. We'll start with the 1 that focuses on that little peak at about 2500Hz, R10 13ohm. Reduce it by a large amount to start off with, listen and then adjust at will. Measure if and when you feel like it.

Btw, patience is your friend here. This final fine tuning and tweaking stage should take some time. Like, I'm talking a number of weeks if not months for some people. You've now got it pretty much into the ballpark, so live with it for a week or so and then make just a small change of an ohm or so and live with that for another week or until you feel confident in which version (or combination of versions) you like better. Also just in case you haven't figured it out yet, make only 1 change at a time.

It sounds like it's finally time to start enjoying the music again. Congratulations.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 10:10 PM   #254
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Manchester
The loud speaker gods are smiling and so am I Really enjoying the sounds they are producing, even with the little bump at 2.5Khz. I'm going to live with this setup for a few months time and then revisit the bump and fine tuning when life is less manic The bass isn't as overbearing as i'd feared, in fact it seems very smooth and pleasing to the ears.

Agree with the measurements and usage. My target has always been a flat FR but its my ears that are the real test. I will have to apply some room correction for due to the position of the left speaker. The right speaker's FR doesn't change significantly up against the wall vs when I was measuring away from the wall by a couple of meters.

Here's a few photos of the end product and my FR measurements before placement. I'm happy with the L&R FR looking so close to each other!

So project not complete, just yet.. but a massive milestone achieved! A huge thank you again jReave and everyone else who helped out. There's no way i'd have got to this point without your assistance and patience

Time to listen to some music and dream about another loudspeaker build
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Final copy.jpg (290.2 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6497.JPG (657.2 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6502.JPG (483.2 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6501.JPG (486.0 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6507.JPG (460.1 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by spark010; 23rd March 2017 at 10:36 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 12:40 AM   #255
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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Join Date: Oct 2012
That is just firkin awesome!! Those look absolutely fantastic. Very hard to tell that those are not the original speakers in that last photo. Pat yourself on the back and pour yourself your favorite beverage - you deserve it!

Good call, take a break, listen for a while and return with fresh energy and perspective when it's more suitable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spark010 View Post
Time to listen to some music and dream about another loudspeaker build
This made me laugh out loud.

Well done my friend.
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