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Old 10th February 2016, 06:23 PM   #1
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Default Main's in big (home :) control room

Hello everyone! Esteemed Ladies & Gentlemen, I am glad to welcome your's experience and indulgent relation to eager for the help

I'm some novice on this forum, but i found here so many interesting for me information, and so, now it's time to build my own thread about... About some crazy russian studio perfomance, for example

So... I'm one of homelike producers - love to play different eclectic music, record live-improvised sessions and other other etc, include post-production, mixing, sometimes mastering (who, if not I:). Not commercial, just only from my big love to soundart.

And nowadays, i'm going to levelup my controlroom abilities. Way so long, hard and thorny, but have no choice

How i see "sucessful end result ": It's full-ranged 3 or 4-way system, rather analytical and transparent to do "home mastering missing", and other mixing tasks.

What about i can to enclose in it:

Room Size: 4.9x7.8m. (38m^2 between massive walls) What about height... So, because it's my own house (second floor exactly), i've made a "sound-transparent" ceiling. Room's walls have a 2.8m height, and than, no reflection surface (only 20cm rockwool + furnishing fabric), connect control room with a attic-floor room (about 10x10m, with a 1.5-2.5m between floor and roof (metallic tile).
May be it's hard to understand and imagine, but i attach a photo, that can to facilitate this moment

So, the main thing about so many "mine letters about room":
that we have great area with a giant volume of air below the ceiling (if I start talk about metallic tile reflection ability... Hmm... Theoretical on low frequency signal we haven't ceiling at all

What about acoustic preparation - don't have problems with it, and I will try to made "reflection-free control room".

Speakers...
I think, that will be required many-many watts of amplification and woofers to create a necessary stock of power, necessary to "easy and sure undistorted working on a 95 dB in a sweetspot". Don't wanna go to ProAudio gig's SPL, but found "golden measure" between watts&meters not so easy And, of course, in priority - high monitoring audio quality.

Nowadays, I use pair of Adam A8X and TransmissionLine QuaterWave-subwoofer tuned on a 32 Hz on a 18Sound 18LW1400. (Big heavy painful

Main problem, that i have today - 8.5" woofer have some problems on a 1-2 kHz. And small Heil doesn't work stable&fine on a big SPL, because 2300 Hz crossover frequency...) The slightly failed mids, so sad(( (Needed more mid-frequency ribbon))

Looking forward to a close day, in which I move to new room (that i describe above), i think, will have some problems in midbass, because:

1)Area&Volume is so big to get what i want from i have.
2)Room size: Have compromise in monitors location: Good Stage or flat AF response.

I will prefer to place A8X close to me, to get great soundstage image, and transfer 70-200 Hz to a separate "midbass section" (for example 12" on a side), that can be InWall sofit mounting or have another midfield position further than Adam's.

And so, 30-70 Hz we can move to 18". Two 18". Many 18" in Infinite Buffle - we will go all the way.
(have one empty 12m^2 room for that)

If you read up until this moment - thank you, for you great interest in my modest life of underground mixing engineer.

I can formulate my main question on this moment:

1)What should i do, to be ABSOLUTELY sure, that my DIY transmission-line subwoofer working transparent and analiticaly, because i try to use it in mixing/mastering mission's? Room Eq Wizard can help me to understand what's going on
2)Can I independently measure TC parameters of my unnamed vintage 12" speakers with a adequate accuracy, to build them correct midbass acoustic design (thinking about horns horns horns )? May be you can direct me to a true way, how doing this...
3)May be downgrade from A8X to A5X is good idea to get better "upper mids"?
3)And what, in general, about my view of control room? A8X in close nearfield + 2x12" in horns Inwall or separate location + 2x18" TL Subs (or IB... Question of subs will be solved in the last turn)

Thank you for attention, hope that we have much fine in founding a solution...
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Old 18th February 2016, 10:22 PM   #2
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Thinking about Scanspeak Discovery 10F/8424G 4" Midrange 8 ohm
to get it right between A8X's twitter and 8.5" woofer (the same, Discovery series, how I understand).
Crossovering and can go hell's hard, but, seems to me, that adding a 4" in middle is necessary measure for the movement the designated direction.

So, am i crazy?...
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Old 30th June 2016, 09:02 PM   #3
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So... Going in 4-way:

HF: Fountek Neo x 2.0 ribbon (may be go to horn design)
MF: Coral MD-5 dome 3"
LMF: Eton A1-160 Adventure 6.5"x2 on side. (Hello caraudio! Closed box 13l + digital correction. In Future, may be added fift's Eton to a front horn-monomidbass module (have 5 speakers and 5-channel amp. lol
All 3-way in box in nearfield.

LF: Alphard LW120A4 in big closed box with correction. May be inwall in front. Goes to 50-(200-300) Hz. So, it sounds midfield.

SW: Obsidian OA18 (4+4) in a 32-hz tuned quarter-wave TL.

Here you can found some TSP on drivers: https://yadi.sk/d/MaponoQqsv5Jx (for Coral dome have no information, but have a catalogue with it)

Amplification and filters:

HF&MF seems to have passive crossover, and nowadays I have no respectable amplifier for them. (May be you can advice, what i should try to find?)
LMF have active filtration and Rotel RB-985 Mk II. (~175 w / 4ohm / 5 channel) One driver=one amplifier channel...
LF have active filtration too and Inter-M M1000 (500w / 4 ohm / 2 channel)
SW, of course, digitally crossovered and TCM-6002 (1200w/ 4ohm / 2 channel).

Digital philters and all other sound processing provided via VST plugins in Reaper. (Motu Audio Express Hardware)
In foreseeable future going to achieve miniDSP Open DRC DA-8, it will be such pretty to use only SPDIF on my soundcard

that's all. Welcome to criticism and councils!
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Old 1st July 2016, 12:11 AM   #4
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Have you spoken with GIK Acoustics? Inexpensive, and very effective products and very knowledgeable. They would be able to take in all your pictures and data and recommend complete solutions. Offices in the UK, France and Germany.

Best,

Erik
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Old 1st July 2016, 04:56 AM   #5
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Could you post a dimensioned sketch of your room, speaker positions, and main listening position? This will help decisions on polar pattern, and desirable room changes. There are several websites with good information on building and setting up a recording studio using modern DSP with controlled directivity speakers. Forums on home studios often discuss how to DSP custom-tune the speaker SPL based upon target ambience, target audience, target play back equipment(ear phones, MP3, audiophile)

Typical Controlled Directivity Speaker Parts.
-Reduce wall+ceiling short delay bounce.
-Polar patterns crossed in front of listener.
-SEALED 18” woofer(s) with DSP for equalization and SPL tuning (20-140Hz)
-SEALED 10” midbass with DSP for equalization and SPL tuning (140-1400Hz) most of vocal range
-Horn like H290C from Pi-Speakers($50) + 1” CD (1600Hz) passive or DSP Xover
-DSP with 2 or 3 amps

Recording Studio Design 101: How to Set Up Your Room
John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum • Index page

Last edited by LineSource; 1st July 2016 at 04:59 AM.
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Old 1st July 2016, 05:06 AM   #6
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When you setup your speakers/monitors and mixing console, may want to take into account the Allison effect, ie try to avoid symmetrical distances to any hard surface. It makes everything non symmetrical, but gives better sound as the peaks and dips are spread out.


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Old 1st July 2016, 10:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksquires View Post
Have you spoken with GIK Acoustics?
If these about room acoustical design - it's not a problem, I have some expirience in building LEDE control room, so, i think, my multy-way speakers will have minimal exact room intervention. (i'm talking about 3-way in nearfield).


Quote:
Could you post a dimensioned sketch of your room, speaker positions, and main listening position?
Of course... Some writings in mspaint )

I don't point acoustical absorption on my picture. Going for Philip Newell conception, and think that about 0.5-0.8 meters receding around the walls will be used for acoustic preparation of my room. Of course

Front wall needs more attention - i can cut corners to provide better room response and use this volumes for midbass section. Or subs (You can see example in purple on picture).

Quote:
based upon target ambience, target audience, target play back equipment(ear phones, MP3, audiophile)

May be But first and main purpouse - get an very analytical and honest studio monitoring. Without hi-fi coloring.

Quote:
When you setup your speakers/monitors and mixing console, may want to take into account the Allison effect, ie try to avoid symmetrical distances to any hard surface.
It takes 2-3 years, to finish acoustical preparation and building of mine monitor system... So, i know about SBIR-effect much more, and will make more efforts in a battle with reflections

Main question is about mine set of drivers and acoustical design, including questions of crossover and tune all this into one )

Thank for answers and advices!
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Old 1st July 2016, 05:27 PM   #8
koja is offline koja  Canada
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If the point is a good quality mastering studio you should probably focus on implementing readily available knowledge and not venture into reinventing the wheel by a new speaker design. that's all been figured out by people who spent many years on constant directivity etc. check out Earl Geddes and Linkwitz designs (I experienced both and have the latter at home), as well as commercial monitor offerings. getting the bass right and room treatment is the biggest challenge. I managed to integrate a sub very successfully at my home owing to a highly irregular shape space; and really only for a close range of listening volumes. others in more conventional rooms use bass traps and similar to help the situation. for the best results all active approach and DSP is assumed.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 04:41 AM   #9
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If you research corner speaker placement you may find their constant directivity desirable for the "neutral presentation" valued in a recording studio, plus the potential for smooth full-room bass from putting DSP equalized woofers in all four corners. Your dedicated room allows non-intrusive large(8cuft) corner volumes for great transienst from DSP sealed 18" woofers.

You could construct removable sealed TM tops (with 90H x 40V tweeter horns) that cover down to ~80Hz to provide in-room placement options for more ambience from diverse wall-floor reflections. Pull the TM sealed cabinet from its corner slot for close listening.

==================
If you decide to construct a floor standing TM-W sealed box speaker, consider a horn tweeter to reduce side wall and floor reflections. 90-degree horizontal horn can cover a listening couch. 60-degree horizontal horn aims sonic details to one.

===============
Earl Geddes Directivity paper.
PiSpeakers Constant Directivity paper.
Woofer room placement papers will include 4-corner measurements.
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File Type: jpg Directivity SEOS15_12mid.jpg (89.9 KB, 310 views)
File Type: jpg Studio 90.jpg (128.2 KB, 311 views)
File Type: jpg studio 60.jpg (127.9 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg studio flat_baffle.jpg (124.7 KB, 59 views)
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Old 2nd July 2016, 09:30 AM   #10
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I just read about the allison effect, avoiding same distances from symmetrical placement, which lumps the peaks and dips from reflections. Does that mean the setup alignment should be non symmetrical with the room?

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