Active TPL-150H and 12P80ND-V2 project

[dave123]

Hello everybody,

I'm submitting this thread to have others idea so I can make my mind easier.
I'm gonna build a 3-way fully active speaker based on TPL-150H and 12P80ND-V2 both from Beyma plus woofer(s). I use a Hypex DLCP 6 channel DSP plus some 180-250watts UcD modules.
rightnow I'm thinking about opening up TPL-150H back chamber and build an open baffle. I may use two 15" woofer per side. maybe 18". please tell your opinion about it.

 

[Clashing]

Definitely remove that back chamber, or at least the stock one because the measurements I've seen show that distortion drops almost 15 db and I've seen others that say 20 db (about .1%, which is very, very good for a loudspeaker).
Also run the 1280Nd dipole because from what I've heard in other speakers: its either all dipolar or all box. The bass is a bit more complicated because it can be challenge to get bass out of an OB but its doable and having the ability to eq frequency response along with plenty of power certainly doesn't hurt.

 

[dave123]

Definitely remove that back chamber, or at least the stock one because the measurements I've seen show that distortion drops almost 15 db and I've seen others that say 20 db (about .1%, which is very, very good for a loudspeaker).
Also run the 1280Nd dipole because from what I've heard in other speakers: its either all dipolar or all box. The bass is a bit more complicated because it can be challenge to get bass out of an OB but its doable and having the ability to eq frequency response along with plenty of power certainly doesn't hurt.

thanks man for the entry

I think I can use 12P80ND/N from ~200hz +24db/octave. I'll use TPL-150 like what DAudio brand did:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

I just opened up TPL-150H to take a look inside. see the attachments.

 

[dave123]

for now my concern is if I can get decent bass down to at least 40hz or not with customized Beyma woofer I got (it's called BD-Design BD15) woofers I got.
it's pretty fast woofer with light moving mass. I like it's sound too much. but it's the first dipole I'm gonna build so I don't know if two of this woofer will go down to at least 40hz region.

it's a 16ohms woofer. I'll use two of it per side:

 

[dave123]

I like to hear your opinions about above mentioned woofer and how will it behave in an open baffle 2/side

 

[LineSource]

A quickie Xbaffle sim suggests the BD15 on a 30" baffle will require significant bass boost. Same for Qtc=0.16 12P80Nd midbass.

There may be a TPL-150H horn speaker in your future.

 

[Eldam]

Hi,

some memers did an excellent work on those 12" and TPL driver ! Search here for AngeloItacare, Lewinski01, Vinylvalves members with TPL150 keyword as well.

They putt a lot their finger to find a trade off around the fastness and high efficienty of the TPL150... not easy to keep all the quality of this last...

 

[dave123]

thanks for all inputs
I changed my mind to go another path. TPL-150H (with horn) and all drivers in boxes

 

[Audio Elite]

Keep us updated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LewinskiH01]

Hi,

some memers did an excellent work on those 12" and TPL driver ! Search here for AngeloItacare, Lewinski01, Vinylvalves members with TPL150 keyword as well.

They putt a lot their finger to find a trade off around the fastness and high efficienty of the TPL150... not easy to keep all the quality of this last...

Thanks for the kinds words. But I don't think I belong in the same league as the other guys as my "experience" is only limited to the analysis, not experimented. So take what I say with that in mind.

The experiences from Angeloitacare and Vinylnvalves are good as they almost represent opposite views. In my mind showing either execution and acilliary equipment/room are key, or simply taste matters a lot. Or both!

Angelo went from horns driven by (I think) class A tubes, to TPL + 12P80Nd driven from 50Hz to 1500/1600Hz and he's not looking back into horns.
Vinyl tried TPL-150H with 12P80Nd/2 driven by SET, and went back to his midrange horn.

I decided not to go with 12P80Nd for midrange as it seems beaming would be an issue if going up to 1500Hz. A "typical" 12" has a dispersion of 60° at 1500Hz vs 80° for the TPL-150H. And there are plenty of references saying the TPL sounds much better if played from 2kHz...ideally from 2.5kHz. So in my mind a xo of 1500Hhz or so is not good for both drivers. Despite both drivers being outstanding. Of course Angelo has a different take, plus he has first-hand experience with the sound.

Also a large midrange worsens the center-to-center situation with the TPL, which is already large. Some say lobbing is overrated. I don't know, but I keep it in mind.

From the point of view of the above, a 6.5" midrange would be best for me (I'm doing a 4-way active). But I worry it might be too small from a dynamics/impact point of view. So I'm looking into either 8" direct radiator midrange, or a smaller cone in a horn. My goal is to cover 350/500 to 2000/2500 Hz with this midrange.

BTW, removing the plastic back cover and building a 1 to 2 liter box behind the TPL is said to extend the low end reach, plus reduce distortion.

 

[onthedole74]

for now my concern is if I can get decent bass down to at least 40hz or not with customized Beyma woofer I got (it's called BD-Design BD15) woofers I got.
it's pretty fast woofer with light moving mass. I like it's sound too much. but it's the first dipole I'm gonna build so I don't know if two of this woofer will go down to at least 40hz region.

it's a 16ohms woofer. I'll use two of it per side:

Thanks Dave,this 15 looks quite interesting hmmmm
Can you tell us more about this driver?
BD15

 

[manninen]

Thanks Dave,this 15 looks quite interesting hmmmm
Can you tell us more about this driver?
BD15

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/1211/15_inch_woofers.htm

 

[vinylnvalves]

I thought i would add to the comments regarding the TPL's. I have attached a trace of the TPL with and without my oversized horns. The peak i introduced ( +2db) at 2K has been fixed with the larger back box. IMHO alot of the peaks and issues with the TPL and not crossing it below 1800Hz are ill founded. I believe all the issues are mechanical, the 1600Hz peak is the plastic backbox vibrating and other issues relate to the fit of the ribbon in the slot, i packed mine out with some shims. It did not feel right to have the ribbon cassette loose enough to drop out if turned upside down. Lots of wasted energy in mechanical vibration, so my horns weight around 10 kg each, to drop the assembly freq below the running range. I know Stig likes them open at the back, if i wasn't going closed baffle on all the drivers, i would have been tempted to build the double horn having them loaded in dipole, as an experiment. Supravox 215-2000 EXC ,400-2000 EXC OB and Beyma TPL 150 OB 3 way

 

[manninen]

My measurements from tpl200
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33080121/hifi/steelisreal/tpl200.mdat
i cant say radical distortion reduce taking cover off

 

[LewinskiH01]

I thought i would add to the comments regarding the TPL's. I have attached a trace of the TPL with and without my oversized horns. The peak i introduced ( +2db) at 2K has been fixed with the larger back box. IMHO alot of the peaks and issues with the TPL and not crossing it below 1800Hz are ill founded. I believe all the issues are mechanical, the 1600Hz peak is the plastic backbox vibrating and other issues relate to the fit of the ribbon in the slot, i packed mine out with some shims. It did not feel right to have the ribbon cassette loose enough to drop out if turned upside down. Lots of wasted energy in mechanical vibration, so my horns weight around 10 kg each, to drop the assembly freq below the running range. I know Stig likes them open at the back, if i wasn't going closed baffle on all the drivers, i would have been tempted to build the double horn having them loaded in dipole, as an experiment. Supravox 215-2000 EXC ,400-2000 EXC OB and Beyma TPL 150 OB 3 way

I'm sure glad you are joining in! Would you mind posting pictures of your TPL horns and back box? How low are you crossing them over? And to what midrange?

 

[NiToNi]

And I would like to see some detailed pics of how you tightened up the ribbon/cassette with shims.

 

[vinylnvalves]

There are pictures of my horns and back boxes on this forum, and here Beyma TPL 150 - horn trials. To pack out the cassettes I added strips of sellotape down the edges of the cassette to made it fit more snugly in the slot. Sorry no pictures not going to disassemble to take some either.

 

[NiToNi]

Fair enough. Thanks for tip.

 

[nicoch58]

single on 100x65cm baffle

 

[dave123]

Hey guys. I was thinking about a speaker with following drivers:

Faital pro 18FH500 18" woofer on the side panel below 100hz
Beyma 12P80ND-N 12" from ~100hz to ~400hz
Faital Pro 8PR155 8" from ~400hz to 2khz (as 12P80ND-N starts getting narrow after 1khz)
Beyma TPL-150 from ~2khz to ~6khz
Faital Pro HF108 with a STH-100 elliptical horn from ~6khz upward (as TPL-150H starts to get nasty on dispersion pattern as of 6-7khz)


I think I can run all five ways with a 3-way active cross. woofer will be one channel. midbass and mirange will be another with a little passive XO in between and tweeter and super tweeter (if we can call it) will be third channel also with a passive XO. I can EQ everything after passive filters to get to the desired freq. response