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Old 21st January 2016, 09:03 PM   #1
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Default Help the Ijit write Ijit's guide to Danley tech

[Author's revision] I propose to re-name this thread "The Ijit's Guide to Unity and Synergy type speakers". At least until other users give up on me, or I'm banned from DIYAudio, or (most likely) my Synergy Fever runs its course, I propose to annotate my ravings and ramblings in this thread, rather than pollute existing threads as has until now been my modus operandi

Those who know me know that I qualify as an Ijit Seriously, I am as fascinated by Tom Danley's inventions as I am inept to duplicate them

I do have writing skills, somewhat, and would like to make a relatively brief summary of Danley's inventions as they apply to his horns (perhaps add the tapped horns later).

I am slowly worming my way through the various Unity, Synergy, Cosmic Energy etc. threads here trying to to comprehend stuff.

I have tried to read some patents -- a challenge in itself -- and even a translation from "Patent-ish" to English would clarify much.

Below is my Rev 0, an outline if you wish:

Danley's "full range" horns (excluding his tapped horn inventions) generally fall into three categories, shown here by their patent numbers and given official or unoffical names:

4845759 1989 Named? = multiple drivers in one horn; coherence is achieved primarily by active electronics EQ-ing individual signals for a desired composite output.

6411718 2002 Unity: this is the one that uses two or more drivers; the type of driver, the chambers, cavities, etc. are a factor in this design. This appears to be the most popular design to attempt to DIY.

8248976 2012 Synergy? (I still don't understand this one.)

8488826 2013 Layered Combiner [?] When complex milling of solid metal is not sufficient, instead use a mind-boggling stack of individually shaped metal plates with individual channels to do the same thing (or more complex manipulations?)
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Last edited by Soldermizer; 10th February 2016 at 06:01 PM. Reason: To clarify purpose of this thread.
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Old 21st January 2016, 09:24 PM   #2
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Why don't you study the BeoLab 90 instead. (Equally complex but a lot of documentation) just kidding. I would not consider an easy start beginning with patents from anyone anyway.
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Old 21st January 2016, 09:39 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldermizer View Post
Those who know me know that I qualify as an Ijit Seriously, I am as fascinated by Tom Danley's inventions as I am inept to duplicate them

I do have writing skills, somewhat, and would like to make a relatively brief summary of Danley's inventions as they apply to his horns (perhaps add the tapped horns later).

I am slowly worming my way through the various Unity, Synergy, Cosmic Energy etc. threads here trying to to comprehend stuff.

I have tried to read some patents -- a challenge in itself -- and even a translation from "Patent-ish" to English would clarify much.

Below is my Rev 0, an outline if you wish:

Danley's "full range" horns (excluding his tapped horn inventions) generally fall into three categories, shown here by their patent numbers and given official or unoffical names:

A)4845759 1989 Named? = multiple drivers in one horn; coherence is achieved primarily by active electronics EQ-ing individual signals for a desired composite output.

B)6411718 2002 Unity: this is the one that uses two or more drivers; the type of driver, the chambers, cavities, etc. are a factor in this design. This appears to be the most popular design to attempt to DIY.

C)8248976 2012 Synergy? (I still don't understand this one.)

D)8488826 2013 Layered Combiner [?] When complex milling of solid metal is not sufficient, instead use a mind-boggling stack of individually shaped metal plates with individual channels to do the same thing (or more complex manipulations?)
DSLs white papers explain much of the above in simple terms:
White Papers | Danley Sound Labs | Danley Sound Labs, Inc.

"A", "B" & "C" are various iterations of the same concept, multiple drivers sharing the same horn to achieve the equivalent of a single point source, delivering uniform, constant directivity down to a frequency determined by mouth size- the larger the mouth size, the lower pattern control extends.

"D" is an approach to couple massive quantities of high frequency devices on a single horn while retaining phase coherency and (relatively) low throat SPL. Tom developed the Layered Combiner some time after I pointed out to him that HF air absorption rendered the HF content above 5-10kHz of his stadium devices anemic by comparison to the prodigious LF/MF output they were capable of.

Tom has mentioned the Layered Combiner (AKA "Mosquito Beater") was one of the most challenging devices he ever designed, saying quite a lot for a guy that has made acoustic levitator devices and blower operated subwoofers capable of wall bending response down to a few Hz.

Unfortunately, although the Layered Combiner does achieve tremendous HF output, the variability of thermal gradients render delivery of HF at great distances a "hit or miss" proposition. Thermal gradients are constantly changing, and can redirect the short VHF wavelengths to the point where they completely miss the intended target, which can result in "collateral damage" when they drift on to the playing field or over the fence into the neighborhood.

Fortunately, those problems simply don't exist in typical domestic environments.

Art
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Old 21st January 2016, 09:44 PM   #4
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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I'd certainly would encourage you to read all threads started by Patrick Bateman on the Synergy and even Paraline subject. He has his own way of explaining the concept that might help you. I'm sure his many threads on this subject are easy enough to find.
They might have strange thread titles though .
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Old 21st January 2016, 11:25 PM   #5
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Thanks for the source material. This is a task for a scholar. I am one, but of Spanish Literature and not so much audio science and physics
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Old 21st January 2016, 11:38 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Soldermizer View Post
Thanks for the source material.
I'd also suggest mining Live Audio Board/Pro Sound Web for source material, discussions go back a lot further than here, with lots of info scattered through the LAB days into the Unity to Synergy and Tapped Horn transitional eras.

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Old 28th January 2016, 03:34 PM   #7
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Default Why do we low-pass the mid driver?

If anyone would like to clarify this, please do.

On a Synergy type horn, two of the driver selection challenges are:

Finding a HF ("tweeter") that goes low enough, apparently needs to be useable down to 1000 Hz or even lower. This is a challenge expecially for a compression horn, less so for a full range as done in some not-strictly-Danley-ripoff horns

I can understand the above; you don't want the HF operating at the bottom of its range due to increased distortion produced. But I is more confused about...

Why do we want to keep the midrange (usu. a pair or more of cone drivers) low-passed? Most midranges can go well above the 500 or 1000 Hz that people seem to be specifying for the crossover to the HF. Wouldn't raising the x-over to 2K, 3K make life a lot easier on the tweeter?
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Old 28th January 2016, 05:07 PM   #8
GM is offline GM  United States
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In a way, you've answered your own Qs, i.e. the tweeter's and mid-range's pass-band is not 'writ in stone', just for making a particular DSL 'clone'.

For instance, if I ever get around to making a 'serious' Synergy concept, it will be designed around Altec compression drivers, which requires a considerably different set of design parameters, consequently couldn't be successfully used on DSL's or similar/same concept clones even with considerable digital EQ, I'm guessing.

GM
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Old 28th January 2016, 07:32 PM   #9
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GM, thanks. There are so many "synergy" threads going, that I can't remember what I've posted where. Perhaps I can use this one as my "isolation ward" until my current fancy fades. What next? Hmmmm, I've never tried a plasma tweeter (Joking!)

Xrk971 seems to be the "go-to guy" when it comes to synergy clones here. Since others have [had success?] cloning different scales of his design, my latest whim is simply to make a 2x of his "standard" Trynergy. I am going to price large (4x8') sheets of bendy stuff at Lowe's Depot this afternoon; if I'm going to build, why not big? Basically I want to see how big a box I can make, hopefully with just the ubiquitous straight-edge and razor knife Yes it will be weak, need CLD etc. but in this hobby the whole goal is to build ever-evolving prototypes

A more practical aspect of a 2x Trynergy is a cutoff more compatible with existing subwoofer.

Sent from my NV570P using Tapatalk
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Old 28th January 2016, 07:38 PM   #10
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On my Synergy version, I used a tweeter CD that is only really usable down to 2kHz, and the crossover I use is around 2600Hz if I remember correctly. I used that tweeter because of its throat angle of 30 degrees to be closer match for the horn and extended response. So, LF capable tweeter CDs aren't an absolute necessity (but crossing higher forces you to push the midrange ports closer to the throat, which pushes toward using smaller midrange drivers -- I use 2 inchers)
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