I think this is the situation around the world. It's again that crisis +opportunity thing the Chinese talk about.
There is a worldwide dearth in good PC speakers - Laptop speakers are the worst, why can't they suspend two small full ranges on either side of the screen and a subwoofer underneath or in the bag even?
LCD flat screen TV's are another case of audio downsizing.
The pity is that the market exists, the need exists, but there is so little production, why, economics?
For myself, I got tired of listening to my PC speakers and simply opened it up, pulled out the wires and connected them to a 6 inch woofer (documented in my other post).
The result was staggering. Easily the best set up I have heard at low volumes for clarity - for Jazz. This is without a baffle at all.
I must say the satellite subwoofer systems are passable for listening. So if this is PC speaker territory it is not all that bad.
There is a worldwide dearth in good PC speakers - Laptop speakers are the worst, why can't they suspend two small full ranges on either side of the screen and a subwoofer underneath or in the bag even?
LCD flat screen TV's are another case of audio downsizing.
The pity is that the market exists, the need exists, but there is so little production, why, economics?
For myself, I got tired of listening to my PC speakers and simply opened it up, pulled out the wires and connected them to a 6 inch woofer (documented in my other post).
The result was staggering. Easily the best set up I have heard at low volumes for clarity - for Jazz. This is without a baffle at all.
I must say the satellite subwoofer systems are passable for listening. So if this is PC speaker territory it is not all that bad.
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FYI
There is a real need to improve PC speakers.
55% of Americans Prefer Their Music through Computer Speakers - Digital Music NewsDigital Music News
"“…most listening happens through systems that aren’t designed exclusively for music.”"
The article is wrong. 99% of Americans listen through their ears. The rest are deaf.
Hahahaha.
Erik
I'm elite! I have a Sonos Connect as a source on my "real stereo". It's just another source, not some nefarious plot sanctioned by the Illuminati to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
The thing is handy, and as an added benefit, I can also stream music to the other "real stereos" - maybe even Unreal stereos! - in the house.
Don't have a home theater, as such. Couple of big plasmas here and there, but no surround sound. My fellow elites scoff.
The Sonus Soundbar is a really frustrating bit of technology. It sounds really good, far better than you would think, but it's HDMI connectivity is almost non-existent. It has no Audio Return Channel, and only accepts 1 HDMI input which must be PCM or something like that. I forgot the details, but I want to go slap them with a slice of SPAM a few times.
Erik
Connects are the only Sonos devices I've ever owned, and they work flawlessly.
It's funny, I just built a new computer desk with a fairly decent stereo incorporated (but full range drivers, so off limits here). I have a Connect connected to it as a stand alone stereo for use even when the computer is off.
Is it a real stereo? Computer speakers? Confusing, ain't it.
I spend 8 to 5 weekdays in close proximity to a computer at work, and there is always music streaming. But I don't think they'd be too pumped if a brought a "real stereo" to work, so technically I probably spend over 50% of my listening hours a week listening through computer speakers.
So much for my elite status.
It's funny, I just built a new computer desk with a fairly decent stereo incorporated (but full range drivers, so off limits here). I have a Connect connected to it as a stand alone stereo for use even when the computer is off.
Is it a real stereo? Computer speakers? Confusing, ain't it.
I spend 8 to 5 weekdays in close proximity to a computer at work, and there is always music streaming. But I don't think they'd be too pumped if a brought a "real stereo" to work, so technically I probably spend over 50% of my listening hours a week listening through computer speakers.
So much for my elite status.
You have to look at long term data
In the 1960's, you had stereo and a small TV for entertainment for 20 somethings
1970's roll in and the small color TV gets larger and some folks have a VCR and don't forget to upgrade your car stereo.
The 1980's are rolling the TV gets larger, cable TV sucks up some bucks, VCRs are common so movies start biting into the budget. CDs go nuts and entertainment centers show up and people start playing with computers. Video games start taking off as arcades are closing down. Subwoofers get stuffed into cars and crazy talk about surround sound in your house.
The Audio industry peaks in 1990
The 1990's allow for computers to really take hold and the internet pushes this rapidly by the middle of the decade. Video game machines hit their stride offering realistic game play which costs money. The audio market in real world money continues to decline and surround sound is not reversing the trend. Cell phones are rolling in so the average 20 something has a cell phone, cable bills, purchases movies, buys a computer AND pays for internet...don't forget a decent card stereo. In the 60's, the only thing you could buy was more LPs...
Move forward to today, the 20 something HAS to have a smart phone and a laptop/tablet device, internet service, expensive data plans for their phone, a large screen TV, a BluRay player with movies, Netflix and streams music. ALL this costs money and it is taken out of the disposable income earmarked for entertainment that was just for audio and a TV back in the 60's.
Video killed the audio star...the internet killed the video star. How many people would give up their big screen, BluRay, internet and cell phone to have a kick **** audio system? I wouldn't!
Something as to give and audio is the loser. You can get some decent computer speakers with a sub and enjoy the music--if you actually stop the world and listen to it. Most of the time I throw on some tunes on Youtube and read the news, check the weather and write long, boring, inept and moronic posts on audio forums instead of just listening.
Out in my garage, my DIY sound system is linked to a tablet and I drink some brews, play tunes and BBQ with the neighbors... that would be "the component system" while my laptop is routed through my HT system inside the house.
It's not that "the younguns" don't appreciated music, they do but they also have the internet, cell phones, video and streaming so they are not tied down to the listening couch.
So you can blame the decline in audio importance to the VCR, cable TV, video games, DVDs, computers, internet costs, cell phone costs, large TVs and all the things that come out of the same bucket of disposable income that was dominated by audio in the 1960's. Audio peaked 26 years ago as the CD became common and people were done replacing all their favorite music.
If you phone is what you play in the car and work--you get used to it and optimize the playback systems in your car and at work. The thing sitting in your house becomes less important so why blow big bucks on it?
Just a thought..
In the 1960's, you had stereo and a small TV for entertainment for 20 somethings
1970's roll in and the small color TV gets larger and some folks have a VCR and don't forget to upgrade your car stereo.
The 1980's are rolling the TV gets larger, cable TV sucks up some bucks, VCRs are common so movies start biting into the budget. CDs go nuts and entertainment centers show up and people start playing with computers. Video games start taking off as arcades are closing down. Subwoofers get stuffed into cars and crazy talk about surround sound in your house.
The Audio industry peaks in 1990
The 1990's allow for computers to really take hold and the internet pushes this rapidly by the middle of the decade. Video game machines hit their stride offering realistic game play which costs money. The audio market in real world money continues to decline and surround sound is not reversing the trend. Cell phones are rolling in so the average 20 something has a cell phone, cable bills, purchases movies, buys a computer AND pays for internet...don't forget a decent card stereo. In the 60's, the only thing you could buy was more LPs...
Move forward to today, the 20 something HAS to have a smart phone and a laptop/tablet device, internet service, expensive data plans for their phone, a large screen TV, a BluRay player with movies, Netflix and streams music. ALL this costs money and it is taken out of the disposable income earmarked for entertainment that was just for audio and a TV back in the 60's.
Video killed the audio star...the internet killed the video star. How many people would give up their big screen, BluRay, internet and cell phone to have a kick **** audio system? I wouldn't!
Something as to give and audio is the loser. You can get some decent computer speakers with a sub and enjoy the music--if you actually stop the world and listen to it. Most of the time I throw on some tunes on Youtube and read the news, check the weather and write long, boring, inept and moronic posts on audio forums instead of just listening.
Out in my garage, my DIY sound system is linked to a tablet and I drink some brews, play tunes and BBQ with the neighbors... that would be "the component system" while my laptop is routed through my HT system inside the house.
It's not that "the younguns" don't appreciated music, they do but they also have the internet, cell phones, video and streaming so they are not tied down to the listening couch.
So you can blame the decline in audio importance to the VCR, cable TV, video games, DVDs, computers, internet costs, cell phone costs, large TVs and all the things that come out of the same bucket of disposable income that was dominated by audio in the 1960's. Audio peaked 26 years ago as the CD became common and people were done replacing all their favorite music.
If you phone is what you play in the car and work--you get used to it and optimize the playback systems in your car and at work. The thing sitting in your house becomes less important so why blow big bucks on it?
Just a thought..
Not sure about the audio industry peaking in 1990, tho I can see some merit to that.
To me, the late 50s, to mid 60s were the peak of Hi-Fi. Maybe not in terms of technology, but in terms of wide spread enthusiasm. That carried on, somewhat, into the 1970s.
Somewhere along the line the mini systems started to become popular. They sounded just as good as systems 3X the size, right? Most people I know still love the sound of big amps and big speakers, but they don't own them. Why?
To me, the late 50s, to mid 60s were the peak of Hi-Fi. Maybe not in terms of technology, but in terms of wide spread enthusiasm. That carried on, somewhat, into the 1970s.
Somewhere along the line the mini systems started to become popular. They sounded just as good as systems 3X the size, right? Most people I know still love the sound of big amps and big speakers, but they don't own them. Why?
From what I understand, audio had it's peak in sales in 1990 and it started to fall after that. Considering the US economy eased up in 1991, it makes sense as disposable income falls--so does luxury items. The rise of the internet after the economy recovered pull the last of the nails in.
I'd say the other issues is the "good enough" when it comes to consumer items. Since audio has become much more mobile since the Walkman in 1979 and the rise of car audio, having something that small give decent sound makes the large stuff look less appealing. Mix in the rise of the subwoofer for home use allowed much smaller speakers as monsters were not required to create deep bass.
The price of watts has created inexpensive 300 to 1000 watt gear to create sub bass with pure power while still remaining small. Efficiency is terrible but watts are cheap--and watts sell!
My crystal ball indicates that slowly, more efficient and directional speakers will become available for home theater use. The traditional large stereo buyers are retiring so movies make a lot of sense considering the low price of large screen televisions. If they want a true THX movie experience, you can't get that from 85dB 1w/1m baby speakers so the market will provide additional choices. This is already happening, 10 years ago you had Klipsch if you wanted efficiency--or you could buy PA speakers. Now, you have JTR, Seaton Sound and others make very efficient speakers with outstanding sound that require subwoofers generally.
For me, I build my own cabinets to fit available space so my next speakers are going to be DIY Sound Group. Nice to have options!
Audio was very popular before the arrival of TV sets.
I remember spending many hours in front of a record player to pass the time.
The main source of entertainment in those days was the radio.
We had an old Radiogram that had a radio and a record player.
It sounded great and had a magic eye for tuning.
I remember spending many hours in front of a record player to pass the time.
The main source of entertainment in those days was the radio.
We had an old Radiogram that had a radio and a record player.
It sounded great and had a magic eye for tuning.
I believe this issue of people listening to mostly second grade systems isn't just endemic to the States. It's mostly the same here almost half way around the globe in Finland. And when those "plebs" choose to buy something that's better, it might be something like a JBL Clip.
Then again, I don't blame them. Since the advent of the flatscreen TV generally the sound quality of everything has gone downhill. I remember our last big Sony CRT TV at my childhood home, and the devastation I felt when that went and the first LCD came in; I almost couldn't understand a word the people on the telly were babbling about. The sound quality was really that bad. And in my experience, for a lot of people the TV is kind of a reference in sound, since it is what they listen to the most, be it for music or other programme. Of course I could listen to it through the Hi-Fi set in the living room (by then I had a better one in my own room) but usually was too lazy. And to be honest, those flat brainwashers have gotten no better in sound after that.
At the same time computers have gotten smaller, mobile phones have gotten smaller, and all the time there has been a slight downhill trend in SQ. Okay, given that nowadays we can have ample power almost anywhere thanks to class-D power amps, and some other possible downfalls of trying to squeeze audio devices down to sugarcube-size can be worked around with DSP's, it might seem that the laws of physics can be overcome. And people don't want something like what I have in my living room; a pair of 180 liter cabinets 50cm wide housing a pair of 15 inch coaxial drivers. Just too big.
But the fact of the matter is that the laws of physics are still there. That 15-incher can do a lot of things those soundbars can never even dream of. But since these things have become so rare, people - the "plebs" - simply have no points of reference of good sound. So they go on with cr*p sold in the local supermarket with impressive marketing.
Add to that the inconvenience of the Hi-Fi scene having become so closed; someone who has no concept of ideas like soundstage and stuff like that, someone who just wants better sound, and might even be prepared to pay some amount of money for it. I mean like more than supermarket-plastic-sounddevice money. And they might walk to a local Hi-Fi dealer, who starts babbling about cables, mains phase, maybe taking measurements to ensure the listeners head is exactly in the sweet spot... And they walk away confused. No money leaves wallet.
Hi-Fi has maybe become to the general public a bit like computers were to the general public in the 60's; something you could only access after you've been accepted a part of a very special priesthood with esoteric mythical knowledge. And of course the fact that most people consider loudspeakers costing more than 100 euros really expensive... Imagine their faces when I tell them the tales of my journeys in DIY audio... "What? 400€ for just a single part? And you need two? And the woodwork?"...
Hope is not lost, though. The recent upsurge in sales of vinyl taking place throughout Europe (I've no idea what's happening in the States with this, thus excluded) I think has something to do not so much with sound quality, but the tangibility of the format and the way it kind of makes you respect the music and pay attention. Today, when - as someone here stated - people are used to 5,2 second attention spans, the whole ritual of putting a record on a deck must be very different.
And by the way, I write this listening to Daft Punk's Random Access Memories spinning on my Thorens... But even though born in the early 80's, I never gave up on vinyl.
Then again, I don't blame them. Since the advent of the flatscreen TV generally the sound quality of everything has gone downhill. I remember our last big Sony CRT TV at my childhood home, and the devastation I felt when that went and the first LCD came in; I almost couldn't understand a word the people on the telly were babbling about. The sound quality was really that bad. And in my experience, for a lot of people the TV is kind of a reference in sound, since it is what they listen to the most, be it for music or other programme. Of course I could listen to it through the Hi-Fi set in the living room (by then I had a better one in my own room) but usually was too lazy. And to be honest, those flat brainwashers have gotten no better in sound after that.
At the same time computers have gotten smaller, mobile phones have gotten smaller, and all the time there has been a slight downhill trend in SQ. Okay, given that nowadays we can have ample power almost anywhere thanks to class-D power amps, and some other possible downfalls of trying to squeeze audio devices down to sugarcube-size can be worked around with DSP's, it might seem that the laws of physics can be overcome. And people don't want something like what I have in my living room; a pair of 180 liter cabinets 50cm wide housing a pair of 15 inch coaxial drivers. Just too big.
But the fact of the matter is that the laws of physics are still there. That 15-incher can do a lot of things those soundbars can never even dream of. But since these things have become so rare, people - the "plebs" - simply have no points of reference of good sound. So they go on with cr*p sold in the local supermarket with impressive marketing.
Add to that the inconvenience of the Hi-Fi scene having become so closed; someone who has no concept of ideas like soundstage and stuff like that, someone who just wants better sound, and might even be prepared to pay some amount of money for it. I mean like more than supermarket-plastic-sounddevice money. And they might walk to a local Hi-Fi dealer, who starts babbling about cables, mains phase, maybe taking measurements to ensure the listeners head is exactly in the sweet spot... And they walk away confused. No money leaves wallet.
Hi-Fi has maybe become to the general public a bit like computers were to the general public in the 60's; something you could only access after you've been accepted a part of a very special priesthood with esoteric mythical knowledge. And of course the fact that most people consider loudspeakers costing more than 100 euros really expensive... Imagine their faces when I tell them the tales of my journeys in DIY audio... "What? 400€ for just a single part? And you need two? And the woodwork?"...
Hope is not lost, though. The recent upsurge in sales of vinyl taking place throughout Europe (I've no idea what's happening in the States with this, thus excluded) I think has something to do not so much with sound quality, but the tangibility of the format and the way it kind of makes you respect the music and pay attention. Today, when - as someone here stated - people are used to 5,2 second attention spans, the whole ritual of putting a record on a deck must be very different.
And by the way, I write this listening to Daft Punk's Random Access Memories spinning on my Thorens... But even though born in the early 80's, I never gave up on vinyl.
Most people these days doesn't have (or rather, take) the time to sit down and listen to music and do nothing else. Instead, music is on 24/7 as a continous background noise.
Also, most music has been compresed to death, so it works as backgound noise. If you ever play it through a quality system - the best to hope for, is that it sounds just as crappy , as on a cheap system. If you're unlucky, it sounds much worse. When crappy sound is all you're used to, there's no point in paying for an expensive system, anyways. You need the money to pay for all that other entertainment...
As for office stereo - I have an old 1950s radio cabinet, with an EL84 amp and two 10" fullrange drivers in an open baffle. It's mono, so I mono coupled a squeezebox and fed it through the tape input. It really rocks the house...
Johan-Kr
Also, most music has been compresed to death, so it works as backgound noise. If you ever play it through a quality system - the best to hope for, is that it sounds just as crappy , as on a cheap system. If you're unlucky, it sounds much worse. When crappy sound is all you're used to, there's no point in paying for an expensive system, anyways. You need the money to pay for all that other entertainment...
As for office stereo - I have an old 1950s radio cabinet, with an EL84 amp and two 10" fullrange drivers in an open baffle. It's mono, so I mono coupled a squeezebox and fed it through the tape input. It really rocks the house...
Johan-Kr
Attachments
That's a really nice set. I grew up listening to a tube powered Nordmende radio like this one:
Tannhäuser-Stereo Z330 Ch= 2/633 Radio Nordmende, Norddeutsc
I didn't have any speakers for my desk after the move and one day I got a wild hair and drove to BB and bought a pair of Logitech powered speakers that came with a desk top sub and I can plug in my headphones into the side of the speaker that has the volume control. I can also plug in my phone if I want to play mp3s.
I figured I did not listen critically when I am writing so these would do. To my surprise, they sound very good for what they are. No complaints here for the $31 I paid for the system.
I figured I did not listen critically when I am writing so these would do. To my surprise, they sound very good for what they are. No complaints here for the $31 I paid for the system.
I use the same model for spot audio at my boat dock. They play fairly loud and have been in the rain several times with only some de-lamination on the woofer to show for it...
I may upgrade this spring to some self-powered monitors from JBL or Yamaha but the REAL stereos in the house are not going anywhere.
P
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