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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus
Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus
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Old 18th March 2016, 08:58 AM   #11
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteleoni View Post
...and who knows the drivers may well be usable as well.
The drivers are definitely very usable. Would be a terrible waste to dismiss these.
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Old 18th March 2016, 01:45 PM   #12
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Having looked at the schematic, you'd then be looking to redesign. Ring radiator, isn't it. XT25 or R2604 style. 6" mid, two 7" basses.

DIY-Loudspeakers

A good point of departure would be some vaguely similar project:

Ekta-Grande

A three way isn't fundamentally harder than a 6" plus tweeter. You just add a bass section around a competent two way to spare it bass excursion.

18W-8434G00
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Old 18th March 2016, 04:53 PM   #13
peteleoni is offline peteleoni  United States
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That was a fr graph that would give Floyd Toole nightmares.
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Old 18th March 2016, 04:56 PM   #14
adason is offline adason  United States
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that fr response is much worse than any diy speaker, something not right here
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Old 18th March 2016, 05:22 PM   #15
peteleoni is offline peteleoni  United States
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that fr response is much worse than any diy speaker, something not right here
Entirely possible that the audio impotents at Stereophile took the money for the full page ads from Sonus Faber but never took them out of the boxes and just wrote a review based on specs. I can't imagine that they actually open those $1000 power cords I am sure that there have been many such reviews.
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Old 19th March 2016, 12:29 AM   #16
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Hi Nikon,

You need to do a speaker analysis. You can do this with something like OmniMic+DATS or try for cheap with Room EQ Wizard (REW) and the portable microphone from Dayton ($20 or less).

Good place to start is to measure each driver separately, 3' from tweeter axis. Let's see what you are left with. To do this correctly you'll need to open up the speaker and drive each component without the crossover.

While you are in there, you'll get to the crossover. Pull it out and draw a schematic for it using XSim. Of course you'll also get to see the driver models, if any. Note those as well.

Before you really get started you'll need to get the individual driver impedances. Of course I'll recommend DATS V2, but there are those who want to DIY it all and can do a decent job with REW. I'm sure you can find those tips elsewhere.

Best,


Erik
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Old 19th March 2016, 12:33 AM   #17
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Adason,

Yeah, the previous model had some horrible looking effects as well, as if either a notch filter had the wrong resistor values, or deliberately making the speaker sound unique.

I'm kind of surprised since the last time I listened to the large, wide Sonus Faber I really liked it.

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Erik
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Old 19th March 2016, 09:15 PM   #18
Lynn Olson is offline Lynn Olson  United States
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Originally Posted by peteleoni View Post
Entirely possible that the audio impotents at Stereophile took the money for the full page ads from Sonus Faber but never took them out of the boxes and just wrote a review based on specs. I can't imagine that they actually open those $1000 power cords I am sure that there have been many such reviews.
Agree. I would not give any credence to their subjective reviews. Since they don't measure at the standard 2 meters distance, the frequency response and CSD measurements can look wonky too.

Although the SP's measurement protocol isn't one I agree with, the measurements they post certainly point to an incompetent crossover. Far too much extreme HF, and a very rough (appalling) crossover region. This is not going to be a smooth-sounding speaker, and using a 1st-order crossover with inexpensive 1" dome tweeters is asking for trouble (overloaded HF and eventual failure down the road).

The main virtues of the speaker appear to be a pretty cabinet and a very successful marketing campaign. You can't copy the marketing campaign, which leaves the cabinet.

Last edited by Lynn Olson; 19th March 2016 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 19th March 2016, 09:43 PM   #19
peteleoni is offline peteleoni  United States
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No question that speaker could be made tolerable with dsp. I want to make a note here. We are fast approaching a time when a "perfect" adda route can be run and a (analog) speaker can be made very nice with extremely i expensive onboard dsp crossover, not to mention class D 99% efficient internal chip amps. I expect we will be seeing speaker dsp/crossover/chipamp plates with usb or bluetooth out for programing via phone very very soon. I am speaking of just a few dollars btw. This stuff is progressing at a lightning pace. Check Sure Electronics boards out. I am saying we won't be building crossovers we will be bolting and programming. I can easily see 4x100 w with full. Dsp and 32 bit high snr converters for $50 less a big wallwart. Not quite now but very very soon.
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Old 20th March 2016, 03:44 AM   #20
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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I did a bit of work tonight based on a low order crossover and the published frequency response.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

This is a lousy speaker IMO. We must wait and see what the filter actually is, but it looks like it stinks at many levels. Below is my remarkably predictive frequency response. I also tried a proper 3 way filter. A bit inefficient, but how it should be done IMO. Why do people put up with low order crossovers? They just plain distort on complex program material as Lynn often says.
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