Hey all, I searched around all today and really haven't found much and I'd love some help if possible. First, I have a Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 and Dayton DTA120 for my amp. I am currently using the cheap Dayton 3.5 bookshelf with replaced tweeters and to be honest they aren't bad for $30 but I desire a little more. Coming from my truck where I am using scanspeak/SB and mini DSPs; my desk setup is just....yea
Now I should make one thing clear, I am not going for super amazing or spending a ton of money. In fact there are strict placements.
-No taller than 8" tall period
-The closer to $130 the better
-Prefer 2 way but will go with one driver if it can be clear enough
-More of a guild line...I am shooting for 90ish db most. So the driver needing to get super loud isn't the most important thing. IE I rather have a better quality driver @88db than a lesser at 95@db.
I want these to be as small as possible. To be honest I was looking at the bose cubes for a bit but had to beat some sense into my head lol. I have a fascination with small speakers and trying to extract as much performance as possible from them.
The issue is I haven't been able to locate many plans with small speakers...seems like a pretty niche thing considering you'll almost never get amazing sound from them.
Does anyone have some suggestions? I know $130 isn't much but the idea is so see how far you can make your dollar go. To be honest I would love to push it as cheap as possible just to see.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-3-1-2-full-range-speaker-starter-kit-with-encl--300-7100
That was one of the things I was looking at but I just love clean treble..I didn't drop all that money on tweeters for my truck for nothing. I feel this would be lacking..but maybe I could turn it into a 2 way?
So with that said, does anyone have some directions they can point me toward? You know, besides telling me this is a horrible idea
Now I should make one thing clear, I am not going for super amazing or spending a ton of money. In fact there are strict placements.
-No taller than 8" tall period
-The closer to $130 the better
-Prefer 2 way but will go with one driver if it can be clear enough
-More of a guild line...I am shooting for 90ish db most. So the driver needing to get super loud isn't the most important thing. IE I rather have a better quality driver @88db than a lesser at 95@db.
I want these to be as small as possible. To be honest I was looking at the bose cubes for a bit but had to beat some sense into my head lol. I have a fascination with small speakers and trying to extract as much performance as possible from them.
The issue is I haven't been able to locate many plans with small speakers...seems like a pretty niche thing considering you'll almost never get amazing sound from them.
Does anyone have some suggestions? I know $130 isn't much but the idea is so see how far you can make your dollar go. To be honest I would love to push it as cheap as possible just to see.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-3-1-2-full-range-speaker-starter-kit-with-encl--300-7100
That was one of the things I was looking at but I just love clean treble..I didn't drop all that money on tweeters for my truck for nothing. I feel this would be lacking..but maybe I could turn it into a 2 way?
So with that said, does anyone have some directions they can point me toward? You know, besides telling me this is a horrible idea
I think my Synchaeta might suffice. 2 ltr 2-way with 86dB sensitivity after BSC. It's not common to find a project this small and also this sensitive.
There is a build thread for it over on PETT, if you want to look, and it should be easily found searching for the project name. It's made to work in the original Minimus 7 cab from Radio Shack, but I built mine out of wood.
Synchaeta by Wolf Teeth | Photobucket
F3 is about 100Hz.
Let me know if you have questions,
Wolf
There is a build thread for it over on PETT, if you want to look, and it should be easily found searching for the project name. It's made to work in the original Minimus 7 cab from Radio Shack, but I built mine out of wood.
Synchaeta by Wolf Teeth | Photobucket
F3 is about 100Hz.
Let me know if you have questions,
Wolf
The Synchaeta look really good. I also think they look better than my other possible choice...The Quarks. Although the Quarks look a little flatter..but as I have learned there is much more to speakers than being flat.
I want to get a price on your Synchaeta speakers but there doesn't appear to be the best parts list according to your page. Also, what cabinet did you use or did you make those yourself? Do you have a parts list so I can compare the two?
I also have one more question. Between yours and the Quarks which do you think are better phase alighted? I love accurate imaging and soundstage.
I want to get a price on your Synchaeta speakers but there doesn't appear to be the best parts list according to your page. Also, what cabinet did you use or did you make those yourself? Do you have a parts list so I can compare the two?
I also have one more question. Between yours and the Quarks which do you think are better phase alighted? I love accurate imaging and soundstage.
I have built a mini TL monitor with the same drivers and they sound fantastic despite the budget price. This bookshelf design recommended by member PJN is 12in tall but you might be able to make it 8in by trimming tweeter bezel to reduce height and compensate with extra depth.
Speaker Project - Wayne's Dayton 2-Way -- 8/18/2011
Here is my TL version with active miniDSP. When near a wall and desk, it digs deep like you have a sub.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/281778-low-cost-pmc-inspired-tl-monitor-dc130a-dc28f.html
Speaker Project - Wayne's Dayton 2-Way -- 8/18/2011
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Here is my TL version with active miniDSP. When near a wall and desk, it digs deep like you have a sub.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/281778-low-cost-pmc-inspired-tl-monitor-dc130a-dc28f.html
Those look very nice but I am not kidding when I say they need to be tiny I couldn't make them deeper or wider as there simply isn't the room for that and 8" is honestly the high point. I would rather 6-7 if possible but I will deal with 8.
I really dig the 2nd set there. I bet they sound really good being active. The Minidsp works wonders I swear.
I couldn't make them deeper or wider as there simply isn't the room for that and 8" is honestly the high point. I would rather 6-7 if possible but I will deal with 8. I really dig the 2nd set there. I bet they sound really good being active. The Minidsp works wonders I swear.
Probably my favorite solution for this application is a single Fostex FF85WK in box such as posted above by Dave with photo - the uFonken. Built with 1/2" material, they are 8 218mm H x 145mm D x 126mm W ( just over 8.5" H x just under 6" Deep x 5" W) - although I'm sure the dimensions could be juggled to adjust to your height, provided that vent dimensions are retained.
You mentioned height constraint, but what of depth / width?
You mentioned height constraint, but what of depth / width?
This one is minidsp and 9in tall. Transient perfect.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/280331-fr58ex-ac130f1-micro-fast.html
Square waves at the xo frequency.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/280331-fr58ex-ac130f1-micro-fast.html
Square waves at the xo frequency.
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Thanks guys. I think I'm just going to settle with one of the kits. I don't want to but your cabinets are complex and I simply don't have access to the tools needed to make all that right now.
I also really am not super fond of the one speaker design. It just seems like the speaker would have trouble in certain kinds of music.
So I guess it would be "The Quarks" vs "OS." Which do you guys think would be better?
I also really am not super fond of the one speaker design. It just seems like the speaker would have trouble in certain kinds of music.
So I guess it would be "The Quarks" vs "OS." Which do you guys think would be better?
I understand but I was really hoping to get a recommendation off the predone PE micro box.
I've tried making boxes before...several times. I don't have a steady enough hand with a circular saw and they never turn out. I made boxes for my car speakers before I put them in the truck and there were gaps and all kinda nonsense. They sounded absolutely amazing but they looked awful.
To be honest I don't even trust myself to do the circle with the jigsaw. They never turn out good and I've sat there and practiced them.
I just wish I had a table saw, router, and circle jig. I have a lot of left over MDF from past attempts just sitting in my shed. Then I would love to do it...I just don't want a hack job this time.
I've tried making boxes before...several times. I don't have a steady enough hand with a circular saw and they never turn out. I made boxes for my car speakers before I put them in the truck and there were gaps and all kinda nonsense. They sounded absolutely amazing but they looked awful.
To be honest I don't even trust myself to do the circle with the jigsaw. They never turn out good and I've sat there and practiced them.
I just wish I had a table saw, router, and circle jig. I have a lot of left over MDF from past attempts just sitting in my shed. Then I would love to do it...I just don't want a hack job this time.
You could always buy a pair of aluminum or wood Minimus 7 cabinets off E-bay, even if the drivers are scratched/screwed up, and drop the Synchaeta into them. This means no finishing or building, just pretty much construct the xover and drop in the drivers. This makes it easy. I see some from anywhere of 10-40 clams for a pair. The ones without drivers you'd need to make a plate for the tweeter, but that is not hard.
For example, the woofers are shot in this pair, and the tweeter plates remain:
Vintage Realistic Minimus 7 Bookshelf Speakers! Used Condition
Then you need (PE parts list numbers):
4x 255-202 0.10mH/18AWG coil at $3.68/ea for 4+ price
2x 269-2124 buyout 1.0mH/20AWG coil at $3/ea
2x 027-334 NPE 5.6uF OR 027-115 Audyn Q4 5.6uF cap at $0.56/$2.99/ea
2x 027-328 NPE 3.3uF OR 027-112 Audyn Q4 3.3uF at $0.50/$2.25/ea
2x 015-15 15 ohm/5W at $0.68/ea
2x 004-1.5 1.5 ohm Dayton 10W at $1.38/ea
2x 275-059 ND25FA-4 OR 275-053 ND25FN-4 (faceless) at $17.25/$14.85
2x 294-2760 PRV 4MR60-4 at $19.99/ea
Your other mention-
The PE micro-box is 1 ltr total. The only driver I would recommend in that is the Aura NS3-193-8A ($22/ea, I think). Stuff it, add a 500uF cap in series (about $6/ea), and enjoy good balance from ~65 Hz to 18kHz or so. This is cheap, hard to screw up, hard to blow up (proven!), and is satisfying. This is my "PC" (perfectly compact) project, and many have been built.
Mine have a false bottom underneath, and the cap is mounted there, so they can be much shorter. So- 2 cabs, 2 drivers, 2 caps, and some polyfill.
Later,
Wolf
Blast from the past with those Realistic speakers. I had 2 pair from an estate sale. Believe I paid $1 per speaker. They ended up going in the trash after I destroyed them. I was a little kid...that's my excuse
Okay guys after thinking a lot...I was thinking about mayyyybeeee getting The Sopranos kit and then somehow building boxes.
I was going to order the Quarks but I am not sure if they will be a massive improvement from the current daytons. I would assume for 4x the money they are but who knows.
Does this forum have a box building guide? That way I can see how to make everything right.
Okay guys after thinking a lot...I was thinking about mayyyybeeee getting The Sopranos kit and then somehow building boxes.
I was going to order the Quarks but I am not sure if they will be a massive improvement from the current daytons. I would assume for 4x the money they are but who knows.
Does this forum have a box building guide? That way I can see how to make everything right.
Blast from the past with those Realistic speakers. I had 2 pair from an estate sale. Believe I paid $1 per speaker. They ended up going in the trash after I destroyed them. I was a little kid...that's my excuse
Okay guys after thinking a lot...I was thinking about mayyyybeeee getting The Sopranos kit and then somehow building boxes.
I was going to order the Quarks but I am not sure if they will be a massive improvement from the current daytons. I would assume for 4x the money they are but who knows.
Does this forum have a box building guide? That way I can see how to make everything right.
The Quarks are a linear-phase design, which is a different approach than most you'll find. I've heard them, the Sopranos, my Synchaeta, and more small ones. The issue you wanted solved is sensitivity, and AFAIK in average dynamic-driver non-FR/Fostex designs, there won't be much above about 83-84dB. This is because the drivers are smaller and sacrifice a bit of spl for the capability of going lower in freq. and keeping their small boxes. The Quarks go to about 80Hz, My Synchaeta to 100 Hz, OS to 40ish Hz, etc.
Yes- the Quarks or anything above will likely be an improvement over the Daytons. You just have to decide what angle you want. There are quite a few designs now in the 2 ltrs or less dept, BUT- some will play low, and others will play loud. Very few do both without running out of steam.
You are likely limited to a 4" driver or smaller- that is for sure.
Later,
Wolf
Loud isn't really that important. I will gladly take quality over loudness any day of the week. If I want loud I can kick it to the receiver and then use my main speakers that have a sub and all that. These are going to be used around 70-80db. Maybe one day ill try and crank it up to 85-90. The DTA 120 is fairly clean and should push even a 85db sensitive setup past 90 with ease with no distortion. Actually I expect 60 watts to push almost any of these into the 90db area easily. Considering its nearfield at 3' and it should be far easier on everything right?
I don't even care about crazy bass because its a 4" driver. I can handle lacking bass. I cannot handle cluttered mids and tweeters which unfortunately the scanspeak tweets and sb woofers have spoiled me in this way. It doesn't matter how many instruments you throw at that truck stereo, it maintains clarity no matter what. You can always hear the wires on the snare drum no matter how many cymbals go insane with the orchestra or what have you lol.
I've recently learned how the electrical side of the speaker works and hz and more importantly what separates a good speaker from a bad one and how being flat really isn't the most important thing towards how the speaker performs, just how it sounds.
I know all of you guys already know what I do X100000 so I won't pretend to be educated on the matter because I am really not..hence why I am here.
I am considering doing yours. I just need to figure out to actually make a decent cab and go from there.
I don't even care about crazy bass because its a 4" driver. I can handle lacking bass. I cannot handle cluttered mids and tweeters which unfortunately the scanspeak tweets and sb woofers have spoiled me in this way. It doesn't matter how many instruments you throw at that truck stereo, it maintains clarity no matter what. You can always hear the wires on the snare drum no matter how many cymbals go insane with the orchestra or what have you lol.
I've recently learned how the electrical side of the speaker works and hz and more importantly what separates a good speaker from a bad one and how being flat really isn't the most important thing towards how the speaker performs, just how it sounds.
I know all of you guys already know what I do X100000 so I won't pretend to be educated on the matter because I am really not..hence why I am here.
I am considering doing yours. I just need to figure out to actually make a decent cab and go from there.
Yes- closer you get and more sensitive you get, less power you actually need. Honestly, I think the Synchaetas are capable of LOUD on the DTA120, as I have done that at a friends house on his PC with a DTA120. They do sound a bit better tilted back aimed at the listener from the desktop, or off the surface a few inches, or with sound treatment panels placed on the surface in front. They have a sweet topend that isn't edgy or dull, and vocals sound quite good.
In terms of response, I feel that flat is the best target for all speakers to reproduce the source to its best fidelity. In this particular case, the wobbly midrange area made them a bit more versatile and less prone to boundary tonality. It was a necessity, as I didn't want to flatten every bump there, and that's how it turned out.
BTW- I used 3/16" beadboard side/top/bottom walls, and 1/2" rear and 3/4" front boards. It was a fun build!
Wolf
I have a basic understanding of sensitivity. 86db 1 watt 89 db 2 watt and so on. Where it gets really interesting is the impedance curve which NO ONE seems to pay attention to. Seriously, I had people argue with me on another forum that a 8 ohm speaker was 8 no matter what. Like..no. There is a reason my 6.5 SB woofers can play 10k FLAT FROM 80HZ WITHOUT A DSP yet my cheap HiVi 6.5 isn't even usable to 3k before its rolling off very steeply. The impedance curve is basically flat on the SB and the Hivi shoots up like a rocket. Most full range drivers are relatively flat too I've noticed. Some people really wanna argue this fact and I don't understand why. I mean I am driving the SBs with like 35 watts lol. They get to 105db at both ends of the spectrum.
I should have added more. Speaker being flat is super important to the sound but not the performance. Ideally we would have a speaker that performs well and is flat but I don't think that is possible. Right now I have my truck tweeters crossed at 1800hz and they handle it pretty well but you can tell you get more clarity when you cross higher. I wanna keep the soundstage on the dash though so sacrifices must be made.
One thing I am going to try tomorrow is using a sound generator and slowly adding more and more frequencies and seeing how it effects the currently playing frequencies SPL. I already know what will happen but I would love some evidence that solidifies this.
It is my opinion that what separates a higher end driver and a lower end one is it's ability to create many frequencies without changing the characteristics of the others being played.
Okay...Don't know why I said all that. Hopefully it doesn't sound too stupid lol
As for tomorrow I will be going out and trying to get a circle jig. Do you think 1/4 MDF is safe? 3/8 would be the next option. Do I really need 1/2 or 3/4 for this project?
I should have added more. Speaker being flat is super important to the sound but not the performance. Ideally we would have a speaker that performs well and is flat but I don't think that is possible. Right now I have my truck tweeters crossed at 1800hz and they handle it pretty well but you can tell you get more clarity when you cross higher. I wanna keep the soundstage on the dash though so sacrifices must be made.
One thing I am going to try tomorrow is using a sound generator and slowly adding more and more frequencies and seeing how it effects the currently playing frequencies SPL. I already know what will happen but I would love some evidence that solidifies this.
It is my opinion that what separates a higher end driver and a lower end one is it's ability to create many frequencies without changing the characteristics of the others being played.
Okay...Don't know why I said all that. Hopefully it doesn't sound too stupid lol
As for tomorrow I will be going out and trying to get a circle jig. Do you think 1/4 MDF is safe? 3/8 would be the next option. Do I really need 1/2 or 3/4 for this project?
@ Michael92
I made PC's sperkers set with fountek fe85 in a 2L fonken-like cabinet using 18mm (3/4") pine wood and internal bracing : overkill ! I can jump on : it don't move ... lot of space wasted here (3.5L external ).
Then made a iBIB (74*20*15 cm) for the same driver using 10mm (3/8") MDF and that's strong enough (I can walk on without issue).
For a small speaker no need for 1/2 or 3/4". You can go for 3/8" with bracing (and maybe without ...). I never try thinner material ....
I made PC's sperkers set with fountek fe85 in a 2L fonken-like cabinet using 18mm (3/4") pine wood and internal bracing : overkill ! I can jump on
: it don't move ... lot of space wasted here (3.5L external ).Then made a iBIB (74*20*15 cm) for the same driver using 10mm (3/8") MDF and that's strong enough (I can walk on without issue).
For a small speaker no need for 1/2 or 3/4". You can go for 3/8" with bracing (and maybe without ...). I never try thinner material ....
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