Started this build over the weekend, a bit rough and ready. Building the crossover atm
Being similar to the full range 12P I thought the 12PW with its shallow cone cd be ok crossed around 3khz to the viawave(inspite of being a 7" driver).
The crossover is 1st on the woofers and 2nd on the tweeters with an l pad. I'm sure the values are not really correct but will build and measure etc
The cab design is a very simple tapered TL with a line length of 175cm, will start cutting the sections out tonight.
If anyone want to critique the crappy crossover schematic, pls do..
Being similar to the full range 12P I thought the 12PW with its shallow cone cd be ok crossed around 3khz to the viawave(inspite of being a 7" driver).
The crossover is 1st on the woofers and 2nd on the tweeters with an l pad. I'm sure the values are not really correct but will build and measure etc
The cab design is a very simple tapered TL with a line length of 175cm, will start cutting the sections out tonight.
If anyone want to critique the crappy crossover schematic, pls do..
Slowly but surely. Out of the cabs the sound of the two drivers together is promising. Very smooth and detailed. I need to reduce the attenuation on the Viawave by about 1-1.5db and the coil on the Alpair is rolling off too early I think.
The cabs are mostly cut, I'll post some more pics in a couple of days.
If you are planning something similar I'd def recommend the Alpair, as it's probably the only driver of its size that can be crossed this high up and work well. Another ribbon tweet that I thought of using is the fountek X2.0. But these viawaves are a bit special.
The cabs are mostly cut, I'll post some more pics in a couple of days.
If you are planning something similar I'd def recommend the Alpair, as it's probably the only driver of its size that can be crossed this high up and work well. Another ribbon tweet that I thought of using is the fountek X2.0. But these viawaves are a bit special.
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I have 4 A12pWeN & a set of CSS RT1 ribbons looking for a project -- i was thinking of mating together.
dave
I'll get Scott to do something and was also thinking of trying the same topology as in this thot experiment:
dave
I was at a hifi show recently at among the really expensive speakers was a fairly modest speaker that really captured my heart. It was an Audionote. I am not sure which model it was but the sound really captured me. There is a certain amount of naturalness that makes the music flows and there is a certain sense of realism, that I didn't experience from even the much bigger and expensive speakers. It was however the most boring speaker you could ever imagine. It had a 8"woofer and a dome tweeter... and that's all it has.
Audio Note AN-E Lexus Signature loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
I decided to dig a bit deeper. What makes it tick, what was their philosophy. So my conclusion was, they chose a highly efficient woofer and they tuned the box a bit lower than normal, so that resulted in a low end bass that was rolling off really slowly. The highly efficient woofer means a very light cone. There are not that many speakers who fulfill this criteria with a low Fs and a relatively large X max. This article seems to sum up the theory behind this.
High Efficiency Speakers
I was thinking of trying this approach with a large cabinet but I will go active in the crossover. Sometime next year... Which is why I want to see how it turns out in your built...
Oon
Audio Note AN-E Lexus Signature loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
I decided to dig a bit deeper. What makes it tick, what was their philosophy. So my conclusion was, they chose a highly efficient woofer and they tuned the box a bit lower than normal, so that resulted in a low end bass that was rolling off really slowly. The highly efficient woofer means a very light cone. There are not that many speakers who fulfill this criteria with a low Fs and a relatively large X max. This article seems to sum up the theory behind this.
High Efficiency Speakers
I was thinking of trying this approach with a large cabinet but I will go active in the crossover. Sometime next year... Which is why I want to see how it turns out in your built...
Oon
Not sure how sensitive these speakers will turn out, as I don't know how much the TL cabs will reduce efficiency - as the alpairs have built in bsc they shd be close to the MA specs
Maybe an mltl would be more efficient but by how much?
Audionote had serious issues with the failure rate of their pio caps a few yrs back. I assume they found a new supplier and the probs are resolved by now.
Maybe an mltl would be more efficient but by how much?
Audionote had serious issues with the failure rate of their pio caps a few yrs back. I assume they found a new supplier and the probs are resolved by now.
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How is it possible to get 98dB sensitivity with an 8in woofer? At what frequency is this sensitivity quoted? Seems to defy physics of baffle step loss circa 5dB.
$13k for a 8in 2 way is quite the sum
Paper in oil XO's and silver wire makes it all Wk.
X - welcome to the magick world of Peter Qvortrup - I've heard several levels of the AN-E, including the no longer available cheapie kits with bone stock drivers, and they certainly have their charms, and devoted fans.
Don't even ask about their top end analog system - gorgeous pieces of work, and definitely a step above LP12, but holy snappin arsos that's a lot of money
FWIW, I heard a set of Audionote 8" 2-ways at AXPONA 2014. They had them shoved into the corners to boost the bottom end, and I was really not impressed with their sound. What I would think of them is 'vintage club' style sound, but it was fuzzy and lacked resolution. It could have been the setup or the music, but I didn't like them at all.
Later,
Wolf
I didn't say they'd be my first choice in the $20K & up commercial speaker price range, but never found them "fuzzy or lacking in resolution"
... well, maybe again, compared to B&W N800 series, or several of the Sonus Fabers, but who am I trying to kid - my appraisal skills rusted out years ago, and it's easy to critique a product you'd never be able to afford or justify. That's kinda why I got into DIY in the first place, I can build half a dozen pairs of speakers, and even modest tube / chip pre & power amps for less than the sales tax on many of the above.
... well, maybe again, compared to B&W N800 series, or several of the Sonus Fabers, but who am I trying to kid - my appraisal skills rusted out years ago, and it's easy to critique a product you'd never be able to afford or justify. That's kinda why I got into DIY in the first place, I can build half a dozen pairs of speakers, and even modest tube / chip pre & power amps for less than the sales tax on many of the above.
It would not be surprising if the AN sensitivity was overstated.
From the Stereophile measures:
Audio Note AN-E Lexus Signature loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
dave
From the Stereophile measures:
Audio Note AN-E Lexus Signature loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
dave
I would say that the thing that makes it special is the design combination. In that same hifi show, there were some very exotic speakers much larger stuff that costs something to the tune of US$100,000. However, if you asked me, which is the set I would like to take home, it would be this one. Over in this part of the world the price starts at about US$4000 for the basic model.
If you don't dig deep enough you might not see what is unique about it. But my guess is this. The woofer they chose was actually a full ranger, in fact, I believe it is manufactured by hemp acoustics. So the parameters that define the speaker is in fact closer to a full ranger than a standard woofer. The same goes for the Alpair PW12. The Mms for the Alpair is 12grams. I have a SEAS full range with the same Mms. If you were to go catalogue shopping for woofers, you would find very few woofers that has a Mms below 20grams. Most are about 2 to 3 times heavier. Those at 12 grams are really 8 inch full rangers. The problem with full rangers is they have an Xmax of 1mm most of the time. My SEAS FA22RCZ has an xmax of +/-3mm. The Alpair has a claimed Xmax of 7.5mm, although I believe that is more the Xmech. In fact I would say that these are the only 2 drivers I know which are 8 inch, has an Mms of 12 grams and Xmax of around 3mm and a Fs of around 30-40Hz. Dave might be able to know more, but these are the only two I know.
Being Full range, allows you to cross a bit higher than your usual woofers since paper cones have gentler break up modes and besides these speakers are meant to go all the way. I think you would be hard pressed to get a woofer that you could cross above 3kHz, a bit further away from the sensitive ear range.
This is what I believe AN design goal was.
Which is why they sound very different from most other 2 way speakers. I have heard the Chario, Sonus Faber of the same price range, not impressed...
I am planning on BR project with my SEAS to see if I could get the Audionote sound...
Oon
If you don't dig deep enough you might not see what is unique about it. But my guess is this. The woofer they chose was actually a full ranger, in fact, I believe it is manufactured by hemp acoustics. So the parameters that define the speaker is in fact closer to a full ranger than a standard woofer. The same goes for the Alpair PW12. The Mms for the Alpair is 12grams. I have a SEAS full range with the same Mms. If you were to go catalogue shopping for woofers, you would find very few woofers that has a Mms below 20grams. Most are about 2 to 3 times heavier. Those at 12 grams are really 8 inch full rangers. The problem with full rangers is they have an Xmax of 1mm most of the time. My SEAS FA22RCZ has an xmax of +/-3mm. The Alpair has a claimed Xmax of 7.5mm, although I believe that is more the Xmech. In fact I would say that these are the only 2 drivers I know which are 8 inch, has an Mms of 12 grams and Xmax of around 3mm and a Fs of around 30-40Hz. Dave might be able to know more, but these are the only two I know.
Being Full range, allows you to cross a bit higher than your usual woofers since paper cones have gentler break up modes and besides these speakers are meant to go all the way. I think you would be hard pressed to get a woofer that you could cross above 3kHz, a bit further away from the sensitive ear range.
This is what I believe AN design goal was.
Which is why they sound very different from most other 2 way speakers. I have heard the Chario, Sonus Faber of the same price range, not impressed...I am planning on BR project with my SEAS to see if I could get the Audionote sound...
Oon
I find this article incredibly interesting in explaining the different sonic signatures that we normally associate with our speakers... It is more than making the frequency response a straight line.
The Art of Speaker Design
Oon
The Art of Speaker Design
Oon
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