The labhorn is the answer 30-100hz
www.prosoundweb.com/lsp
lab info
Horns are the hardest to design and build but have the most potential if not compromised to a harmful extent
www.prosoundweb.com/lsp
lab info
Horns are the hardest to design and build but have the most potential if not compromised to a harmful extent
Lab horns would be awsome if I can design them around my cheeper EVM-15B speakers. I like the design more than the Jumbo 2-15.
But anyhow I can't build any horns till I get my venue. I might stick my speakers in small ported enclosures if I need them to gig with. They will still be quite loud enough, especially anywere I have to play a gig at college.
I think I'm just going to go with the cheep CTS horn tweeters. I need to save money to get the bigger amps that I will need to make it sound nice. I also need to buy a good mixer to start with. Since it's a coffee house type of think, I really don't know how many effects I want to pack into my rack. It really matter if I have a seperate monitor board and someone to run it. If I don't then I have to use all the aux outs for monitor outs, instead of effect loops.
- Nick
But anyhow I can't build any horns till I get my venue. I might stick my speakers in small ported enclosures if I need them to gig with. They will still be quite loud enough, especially anywere I have to play a gig at college.
I think I'm just going to go with the cheep CTS horn tweeters. I need to save money to get the bigger amps that I will need to make it sound nice. I also need to buy a good mixer to start with. Since it's a coffee house type of think, I really don't know how many effects I want to pack into my rack. It really matter if I have a seperate monitor board and someone to run it. If I don't then I have to use all the aux outs for monitor outs, instead of effect loops.
- Nick
A few hints....
.. I do this sort of small pub, jazz, coffee lounge stuff all the time, like 3-4 gigs a week....
...I don't do the loud young psuedo rockers..;-))
I have 3 sets of speakers which I use depending on venue and type of music. They all use Eminence drivers, and Motorola piezo horns but with a proper x-o on both parts.
It really depends on your purpose , do you want to be able to do loud dance type DJ music, or real music ?? Do you need big sub bins, how much power, etc, etc
What ever you decide.....
make sure you have headroom...
and get someone regular to control the system and be RESPONSIBLE for sound quality and equipment etc even if you have to pay them.. its worth it save your investment in equipment
DO NOT let young know-it-all would-be mixing guys touch your rig !!!!!! EVER !!!!!
.. I do this sort of small pub, jazz, coffee lounge stuff all the time, like 3-4 gigs a week....
...I don't do the loud young psuedo rockers..;-))
I have 3 sets of speakers which I use depending on venue and type of music. They all use Eminence drivers, and Motorola piezo horns but with a proper x-o on both parts.
It really depends on your purpose , do you want to be able to do loud dance type DJ music, or real music ?? Do you need big sub bins, how much power, etc, etc
What ever you decide.....
make sure you have headroom...
and get someone regular to control the system and be RESPONSIBLE for sound quality and equipment etc even if you have to pay them.. its worth it save your investment in equipment
DO NOT let young know-it-all would-be mixing guys touch your rig !!!!!! EVER !!!!!
nicksmurf said:
Have you chosen your mixing console already? Any decent mixer will have one or more pre-fader, pre-EQ aux busses for monitor use, and post-fader, post-EQ aux busses for effects use. Some consoles have multiple aux busses that are switchable - pre-fader and pre-EQ or post-fader and post-EQ.
Take Andy's advice to heart. I've been there too - house engineer in a couple of electric blues / R&B clubs. Had the pleasure of working with James Cotton, Buddy Guy, Gatemouth Brown, half of the Fabulous Thunderbirds, and many other cool artists. Headroom is key!
dooper
I haven't picked a mixer yet. I might pick up something temporary for cheep if my band gets off the ground. For the venue I'm going to need to have at least 3 monitor mixes. The most auxilary and monitor outs i've seem on boards i think is 6, on the mega expensive ones.
I'll hopefully be getting my last two evm-15b's soon. Then I'll have to start finding midranges for good prices, and decide on a tweeter. The tweeter is going to be the hardest choice. I hope evm12l's arn't going to give me a humpy midrange sound. If they do, i can either eq them or build something into the cross over if i don't tri-amp.
I'll hopefully be getting my last two evm-15b's soon. Then I'll have to start finding midranges for good prices, and decide on a tweeter. The tweeter is going to be the hardest choice. I hope evm12l's arn't going to give me a humpy midrange sound. If they do, i can either eq them or build something into the cross over if i don't tri-amp.
nicksmurf said:
The EV EVM 15 B is perfect for horn loaded subs. However,
due to there Very Low Xmax, I would look for something
else.
Currently I use EVM 15B's (200 watters) in a straight horn
playing low midrange. (1Khz - 80Hz) Each driver getting
825 watts continuous, with no fires yet (Anyone familiar
with EV's know they are prone to going up in flames before
they die)
Just for the record, the 400 watt Prolines are 400 watt
thermal. The 200, and, 400 watt use/ have the same
xmax.
I kind of got to this thread late. However, if you have any
questions regarding the EVM 15 - 18 inch Series, let me
know.
Just one more thing.............. The EVM Series, are
Speakers not woofers. They can offer some potent
midrange frequencies, when used correctly.
nicksmurf said:
That's news I think. You're also a member or the leader of the house band, or planning to be? If so, the (coffee) bar is raised another notch or two. To have your name on the club is one thing. To also play host from the stage one or more nights a week takes things to the next level.
This should result in extra attention being paid to the front of house and monitor systems, especially loudspeakers and power amps. I haven't actually breathed any of the dust yet, but Speaker Builder's Loudspeakers for Musicians by Bill Fitzmaurice has some original horn designs, including some for the EVM series. The graphs in the book look pretty ragged; the author recommends (and I agree) a graphic EQ - I'd say 1/3 octave Klark-Teknik (old favorite).
Check out the book if you can, and see if the group here has good things to say about the designs. There's so much wisdom here - I'm glad to be here!
dooper
good tip dooper
if youre going to go all out and DIY i recommend looking at the back issues of AudioXpress. Bill Fitzmaurice has built new designs that superceed those in his Speakers for Musicians book.
particularly have a look at the DR12. fantastic mid cab that will blow your head off using the EVM 12L. just finished a pair, 140dB from 100hz up! definately need an EQ, particularly the Behringer DEQ2496 31 band with ECM8000 mic mates perfectly. be warned they take considerable time and skill to build.
Above 5k i am still looking for a good compression driver, BMS, TAD, JBL? anyone got any suggestions?
And for DIY club sub situations you cant beat the LABsub for sub bass
heres a freq response of the DR12 vs Turbosound TFS-780 1W/1m
if youre going to go all out and DIY i recommend looking at the back issues of AudioXpress. Bill Fitzmaurice has built new designs that superceed those in his Speakers for Musicians book.
particularly have a look at the DR12. fantastic mid cab that will blow your head off using the EVM 12L. just finished a pair, 140dB from 100hz up! definately need an EQ, particularly the Behringer DEQ2496 31 band with ECM8000 mic mates perfectly. be warned they take considerable time and skill to build.
Above 5k i am still looking for a good compression driver, BMS, TAD, JBL? anyone got any suggestions?
And for DIY club sub situations you cant beat the LABsub for sub bass
heres a freq response of the DR12 vs Turbosound TFS-780 1W/1m
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have heard good reports on Bill's designs, although I havn't seen them myself (my local newsagents don't seem to be able to get AudioXpress ) - Bill certainly seems very knowlegable and likes to push the boundries of contempary design.
phs: A locally distributed HF driver that is cheap and still sounds very good is the Lorantz HF450, an 80W 1" titanium Sammi driver imported by Lorantz in Melbourne - worth checking out.
Cheers
) - Bill certainly seems very knowlegable and likes to push the boundries of contempary design.phs: A locally distributed HF driver that is cheap and still sounds very good is the Lorantz HF450, an 80W 1" titanium Sammi driver imported by Lorantz in Melbourne - worth checking out.
Cheers
ehh, I'm thinking of moving the evm-15b speaker to the mids. LAB horns keep sounding nicer. And if i'm playing in a band the next 3 years of so before i get out of college having a set of full range cabs sounds nice. Don't need the subs till I start my business.
Centauri, thanks for the tip. I'll check out the horns.
I may just design some ported mid cabinets. Keep the Q around .8 or so and tune it something decently low. I can't think of any specific frequency without running some simulation software. I can't hull around any mid or sub horns in a small college band, anthough I do think lab horns will fit in a full sized van.
- Nick
P.S. off to bit on a set of good 15bs on ebay! for dirt cheep!
Centauri, thanks for the tip. I'll check out the horns.
I may just design some ported mid cabinets. Keep the Q around .8 or so and tune it something decently low. I can't think of any specific frequency without running some simulation software. I can't hull around any mid or sub horns in a small college band, anthough I do think lab horns will fit in a full sized van.
- Nick
P.S. off to bit on a set of good 15bs on ebay! for dirt cheep!
nicksmurf said:
This would be the best move. Although many people can
give you opinions regarding the EVM 15B, unless they are
using the EVM 15B for PA jobs, they won't know what they
can, and cannot do. The EVM 15B works best for Midrange
to Low Midrange. This why in old PA systems you would
always see the EVM 15L, EVM 15B, or, JBL E 140 for
midrange applications. (Throw anyone of these drivers
in a straight horn, and stand back!!!)
If your going to build the Lab Subs, buy the Speaker that
was designed around Lab Sub Enclosure.
Remember, PA speakers are designed to take abuse, where
as home speakers are not. The last thing you want to do
is constantly replace speakers after every show.
Best Regards,
Konnichiwa,
Just a note on this. The kind of systems I personally used for this kind of application in the 1980's and early 90's tended to be quite simple. I had two favourites:
1) JBL K/E140 in large ported enclosure, JBL K/E130 in smaller ported enclosure with 4pcs "Lemonsqueezer" Piezos, the piezos actually operating with a parallel resistor (8R2) and a real 5KHz 3rd order LC higpass. We tended to biamp the system with the K/E130 being cut of at 125Hz and the K/E140 being used below that.
2) EV or Zeck 15/3 with 18" Ported woofer for slightly larger venues. The classic 15/3 uses an EVM 15L in a 120 liter ported box, operated "Fullrange", with an add on midrange and tweeter. The Midrange in the Zeck was a Audax PR170M0 derivative with a textbook 1KHz 3rd order Highpass, the Tweeter usually Beyma CP-21 with a Textbook 5KHz 3rd order Highpass. The EV Version had a larger, vented midrange unit and ST350 Tweeter but similar crossover systems.
Non of these sytems sounded as good as a really well combined all horn system, but they tended to be easier to use than 4-Way active hornloaded system of the type I normally favoured, usually the Bands themselves just using a bib "Powered Mixer" plus possibly an extra Amp for the Sub section tended to be able to get okay sound, something to consider if you won't have a good engineer at hand, good quality Mikes etc....
Sayonara
nicksmurf said:
Just a note on this. The kind of systems I personally used for this kind of application in the 1980's and early 90's tended to be quite simple. I had two favourites:
1) JBL K/E140 in large ported enclosure, JBL K/E130 in smaller ported enclosure with 4pcs "Lemonsqueezer" Piezos, the piezos actually operating with a parallel resistor (8R2) and a real 5KHz 3rd order LC higpass. We tended to biamp the system with the K/E130 being cut of at 125Hz and the K/E140 being used below that.
2) EV or Zeck 15/3 with 18" Ported woofer for slightly larger venues. The classic 15/3 uses an EVM 15L in a 120 liter ported box, operated "Fullrange", with an add on midrange and tweeter. The Midrange in the Zeck was a Audax PR170M0 derivative with a textbook 1KHz 3rd order Highpass, the Tweeter usually Beyma CP-21 with a Textbook 5KHz 3rd order Highpass. The EV Version had a larger, vented midrange unit and ST350 Tweeter but similar crossover systems.
Non of these sytems sounded as good as a really well combined all horn system, but they tended to be easier to use than 4-Way active hornloaded system of the type I normally favoured, usually the Bands themselves just using a bib "Powered Mixer" plus possibly an extra Amp for the Sub section tended to be able to get okay sound, something to consider if you won't have a good engineer at hand, good quality Mikes etc....
Sayonara
Does anyone have any experience with the EVM 15B in home hifi use. I've got a pair of them lying around just doing nothing. Just wondering if they have got some good hifi potentials.
They came out of the old PA system we were using for a (to long)time. They sounded quite horrible actually, badly made cabinets with the EVM 15B woofer, a unknown type EV mid horn and a EV T35 tweeter with passive crossovers. I think they would have sound a lot better with some properly designed cabinets and crossovers. Later on we bought a set of second hand Meyer Sound UPA-1's with USW subs powered by some Krown amps. I still love this set even though it is now only in use as a rehearsal set because we moved up to a D&B 1220/B1 set.
They came out of the old PA system we were using for a (to long)time. They sounded quite horrible actually, badly made cabinets with the EVM 15B woofer, a unknown type EV mid horn and a EV T35 tweeter with passive crossovers. I think they would have sound a lot better with some properly designed cabinets and crossovers. Later on we bought a set of second hand Meyer Sound UPA-1's with USW subs powered by some Krown amps. I still love this set even though it is now only in use as a rehearsal set because we moved up to a D&B 1220/B1 set.
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