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Old 16th February 2004, 07:07 AM   #11
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Wonder if EVM-15b drivers are suitible for horn loaded subs?
post all the t/s specs available and youl find out!

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Old 16th February 2004, 09:11 AM   #12
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Originally posted by nicksmurf
I've had one person warn me not to try because of the voice coil gap being so small in EVs.

P.S. Wonder if EVM-15b drivers are suitible for horn loaded subs? If they are, and they probably are, I guess I get to learn something new...

The biggest pain with EV recone kits is that they come with spider, cone and voice coil separate (not assembled like JBL kits) which makes lining everything up and gluing rather tricky. I don't think magnet gap is really any narrower than many other brands.

The 15B does model very well in a horn. If you can stand a box around 20" x 35" at the front, then two of these boxes coupled together will easily keep up with 4 top boxes - even with same power in. Two boxes lying on side and end-to-end in centre of stage (can be part of the stage structure if you like - make sure there is plenty of sound=deadening isolation above them) on floor will pump along VERY nicely.

Cheers
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Old 16th February 2004, 02:00 PM   #13
sek is offline sek  Germany
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I plan just to paint them black or something that matches the place
Good. Actually I was more talking about the wood, e.g. MDF vs. Plywood...

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and hang them either from the ceiling or wall.
Coupling (and thus sound) in the upper bass and lower mid-range will be very poor in case lows and mids are too wide apart.

I'd recommend flying two (each) left and right of the stage, just above head-height of the musicians. Aim the inner pair of tops to the front "rows" while the outer pair points to the "rear".
Much more natural than hearing the music from the ceiling, and it helps you reducing on-stage feedback.

Can you post a picture of your place?

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Thanks Centauri, you pretty much awnsered what I wanted to hear.
Yeah, his very good and short answer was postet while I was typing.

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The 15B does model very well in a horn.
While I'm short of goot 15" bass horn plans right now, I'd second Centauri's recommendations. Depending on your room (remember simulation and measurement ) you could actually gain horn extension by cleverly using the volume under or besides the stage (if there is any fixed one). In the bass region, go for high sound pressure (headroom) and low cut off (i.e. deep enough bass by using big enough horns), while in the mids and highs go for precision (by using good HF-drivers and horns and crossovers).

If you have the choice to build good horns instead of just 4 vented 15" boxes, you'll gain more subjective sound quality than by building more 15" boxes. And again, they help you to reduce on-stage feedback.
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Old 16th February 2004, 02:42 PM   #14
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P.S. Wonder if EVM-15b drivers are suitible for horn loaded subs? If they are, and they probably are, I guess I get to learn something new...
I have a photocopy of the original building plans of an EV double folded horn that is used with a single EVM15. But you would have to take at least two of them per side. More would even be better.

Regards

Charles
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Old 16th February 2004, 02:58 PM   #15
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Just out of curiosity, are those the "classic" vented, frontloaded W-bins?

Those designs are actually outdated, better (sounding) horn designs should be available.

If it's something better, even better.
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Old 16th February 2004, 03:13 PM   #16
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Just out of curiosity, are those the "classic" vented, frontloaded W-bins?
No, they aren't.

But they are obsolete models. As mentioned before they are double-folded (a W-bin is a single folded horn and definitely not from EV). I has a hyperbolical horn shape. I once read that it is basically the same as the Jumbo Basshorn, scaled for 15 inch instead of 12" and cut in half for the sake of transportability (the Jumbo is 2x12").

I found a drawing of a double one on the web:http://members.aol.com/xxbase80a/jumbo.2.15/bau.html

Regards

Charles
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Old 17th February 2004, 01:22 AM   #17
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Nice drawlings, but I can't read that language. The Jumbo 2.15 looks cool. Which kind of box would work best for frequencies 30-80 herts? I wouldn't expect to push anything below 30 herts into them. It's nice that that site has boxes already designed for that woofer. In millimeters too... I hate being an American that thinks in inches. I'm in college and all my foreign friends laugh at me.

Yeah I'm in college so these boxes won't be made for another 3 years probably. I'm just collecting information.

I'll probably be using high grade plywood. No mdf. I want them to last and not get smushed, or watterlogged by any chance. I have another stupid question. I've heard of horns moving across floors. Is this just because of bad box construction, or should I add extra weight to the bottom of the box or bolt it down securly? I'll probably do the second as theft deterrant anyhow.

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But you would have to take at least two of them per side. More would even be better.
2 sub drivers per side. 2 boxs in all. As long as they can fit in a van or trailer they will be fine. I guess 1kwatt amp per side. 2 evm-12L per side, 800 watts each side for midds. 2 horns on each side, probably 600 watts each side. Tri amping sounds nice and easy at this point, yet a little more expencive. Wonder how much i'm going to have to spend on monitors, I don't want to think about it now.

I'm not letting anybody AT ALL touch that system. Maybe unless I hide limiters somewere and fuses before all the speakers.
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Old 17th February 2004, 02:27 AM   #18
Bose(o) is offline Bose(o)  Canada
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Yes, the problem with my bowling alley's Rock 'n Bowl is that they crank the amplifier way past it's abilities and into clipping all they time. Don't worry, I usually complain with "Could you turn your amp down, I like music, and loud music is cool, but distorted music is gross and breaks things like speakers and ears. I'd like to listen to the quality I have at home, Thank you."

Anyway, EV horns are of quality and are clear, just don't push your speaks. You could porbably purchase multiple horns and connect them for an appropriate load.
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Old 17th February 2004, 09:28 AM   #19
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Nice drawlings, but I can't read that language.
It's German. Point to a specific url and I can give you a translation, in case you need one.

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Which kind of box would work best for frequencies 30-80 herts?
The LAB-Horn

I don't have personal experience with your EV drivers, as they are actually rare around here (I frequently meet RCF, B&C, etc.).

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Yeah I'm in college so these boxes won't be made for another 3 years probably. I'm just collecting information.
Interesting, and quite contrary to your initial post(s)...

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2 sub drivers per side. 2 boxs in all.
I think, phase-accurate meant to use horns with one driver each, at least two horns per side. If you never, ever move them, either the double version could work for you.

In my opinion (and from my experience), two horns per side are an absolute minimum. They need coupling (load) via connected mouth area. OTOH, if it's just a coffe house (and no real convert hall), it could work with a total of four, too. You can easily () upgrade later...

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Tri amping sounds nice and easy at this point, yet a little more expencive.
You'e just discovered another one of the major important ways to make a PA sound goog. Active filtering (with a dedicated setup, determined by measurement) is the only way to keep the sound (nearly) constant vs. the load time (yet not vs. spl). Using dedicated amps for the subs is a must, using another dedicated one for the highs is what improves sound quality (over the whole evening) even more.

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Wonder how much i'm going to have to spend on monitors
In the same order of magnitude as on your PA itself, as you don't happen to have any speakers and amps left after finishing the PA.

And, btw., developing monitors is a whole different story, involving nearly an equal amount of work I'm afraid...
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Old 26th February 2004, 01:24 AM   #20
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Default got another speaker

Ok my speaker count is going up. I got another evm-15b yesterday. Now I just wish I had an enclosure and a killowatt amp. I'd probably blow my window out of my dorm room.

I'm going to look for some more modern low frequency horn designs. The ones that are ported might give me a better spl at sub frequencies. But may also promote cone distruction.

- Nick
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