I have just upgraded the original Bennic Bi-Polar electrolytic capacitors to Solen SCR MKP polypropylene capacitors in my speaker crossover.
I much prefer the original Bennic electrolytic capacitors as it has a more balance, detail, natural sound compared to the Solen SCR!
The SCR Solen has a darker, thicker, heavier, less natural sound (very disappointed)
Audio grade Polypropylene capacitor is supposed to be better sounding than a cheap electrolytic?
Anyone with similar experience?
I don't want to be spending silly money on exotic boutique capacitors!
I much prefer the original Bennic electrolytic capacitors as it has a more balance, detail, natural sound compared to the Solen SCR!
The SCR Solen has a darker, thicker, heavier, less natural sound (very disappointed)
Audio grade Polypropylene capacitor is supposed to be better sounding than a cheap electrolytic?
Anyone with similar experience?
I don't want to be spending silly money on exotic boutique capacitors!
There are a few possibilities here. One major difference between electrolitics and film caps is their ESR, electrlitics have higher ESR tnan film caps do. This extra resistance can drop the level somewhat when in series, and can also add damping which can stop resonant peaks at certain frequencies. If the original crossover factored this ESR into the desigh, you may need to add some series resistance in line with the mew film caps to get things back to the way they should be.
The other possibility is that the old caps were out of spec (dried out) and that you have gotten used to the sound. Now you have new caps that are in spec the sound has changed (and may in fact be more accurate) but because it is not what you are used to it doesn't sound right.
Quite possibly it is a combination of the two above factors
Tony.
The other possibility is that the old caps were out of spec (dried out) and that you have gotten used to the sound. Now you have new caps that are in spec the sound has changed (and may in fact be more accurate) but because it is not what you are used to it doesn't sound right.
Quite possibly it is a combination of the two above factors
Tony.
Don't think the electrolytic capacitors are dried out as the speakers are just under 4 years old!
The electrolytic caps also has a faster bass, better transient, more free flowing lucid sound.
The only advantage with the Solen SCR, it has a bit more control and dynamic, goes louder when the volume is whacked up and nothing else. (very fatiguing sound)
I think I just stick with the original electrolytic and bin the Solen SCR!
The electrolytic caps also has a faster bass, better transient, more free flowing lucid sound.
The only advantage with the Solen SCR, it has a bit more control and dynamic, goes louder when the volume is whacked up and nothing else. (very fatiguing sound)
I think I just stick with the original electrolytic and bin the Solen SCR!
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I agree That's how my Dynaudio audience sounded do to them using the Solen caps (ugh) . I would not give up on the idea of changing caps out and redefining the sounded to a higher level all the way around. It worked for me in my dad's old Sanusi speakers from ( eraser caps to Dayton audio caps) It's a night and day differents. So I would start off slow and buy the midrange priced Janzen audio caps . Buy 2 and start with the tweeters. Leave the old cap in one speaker and put the new cap on the other speaker. The let it burn in and test it. If it doesn't work then. At least you tried twice. If I can help let me know. Good luck. Jeff
P.s. To be fair to solen. They have come out with better more hi end caps? I would email them and tell them about what's going on with your speakers ( driver types and tweeter types ) that's if you don't like my idea up top. Jeff
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As film capacitors go in XO use the Solen SCR is my least favorite, Clarity SA and ESA have generally performed better, but some series resistance may be required to compensate for the original bipolar el cap's ESR. Some Russian mil surplus caps in hermetic square/rectangular metal cans are quite nice. Do a bit of digging for suitable types here.
I agree. Keep digging buddy and researching. I had that happen to me the first time I switched my caps out. So I did buy thebbrand Audio caps over 10 years ago ( I mean my mom bought them for my project ) and they are the best around caps I have used so far. Jeff
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Had good results here.
Contrary to popular writings, I've had more issues with films than electrolytics (more often and more significant issues). More often in amps and source components though which is a different story. Electrolytics used with tweeters don't necessarily give tragic results.
It is easy enough to show simple non-linearities in capacitors, especially electrolytics. The other issue is resonances. Non-linearities are probably less of a concern at the speaker end of a system.
As Wintermute already pointed out the problem is likely to be the ESR difference.
It's particularly important for caps in parallel to drivers.
A nice upgrade from Bennics with reasonable prices (less than one pound each) are the Mundorf's ECap AC bipolar electrolytic (PLAIN version).
Those Mundorf have an unetched foil which should greatly reduce distortion compared to regular etched foil and being electrolytic ESR difference is minimal.
I've used them to replace various film caps in my crossover (previously 'upgraded' with those film caps) with great results.
The only film cap that I left in is the Mundorf Supreme in series with the tweeter, a worthwhile upgrade, IMHO, and not too much outrageous in cost.
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It is easy enough to estimate effects with a crossover schematic in front of you. A capacitor ESR of a mere 1 ohm is actually 1dB of level. That is easily audible in tweeter brightness.
Effects in bass shunts could be 3dB at crossover and maybe up to 30 degrees of phase. In some sort of notch filter, you'd need to consider small resistances and tolerances in coils and caps quite carefully.
Funny how people always talk about "upgrading" their capacitors. Clearly it can be a downgrade on occasion.
Effects in bass shunts could be 3dB at crossover and maybe up to 30 degrees of phase. In some sort of notch filter, you'd need to consider small resistances and tolerances in coils and caps quite carefully.
Funny how people always talk about "upgrading" their capacitors. Clearly it can be a downgrade on occasion.
One of the main reason I tried out Solen SCR MKP capacitors on the crossover of my speakers is there is a version of my speaker, the SE-SPECIAL EDITION made for the Japanese market and the crossover have Solen SCR MKP upgraded instead of the Bennic electrolytic by the manufacturer. Everything else on the SE version is identical to the standard version apart from some aesthetic feature like better wood finish and bigger binding post and of course a bigger price tag.
The SE version is only available to buy in Japan only so all the information & specs is in Japanese. After doing abit of research, using google translate, it mention the SE version crossover is upgraded with Solen SCR MKP capacitors.
Maybe the manufacturer have tweaked the crossover on the SE version for the Solen SCR MKP capacitors. Nothing is mentioned about better coils, resistors & etc.
The SE version is only available to buy in Japan only so all the information & specs is in Japanese. After doing abit of research, using google translate, it mention the SE version crossover is upgraded with Solen SCR MKP capacitors.
Maybe the manufacturer have tweaked the crossover on the SE version for the Solen SCR MKP capacitors. Nothing is mentioned about better coils, resistors & etc.
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Let's be clear, there are measurable differences between electrolytics and film types. You can just about hear it in quality. I'd call it sibilance.
Also Non Polars have ESR which must be accounted for in the crossover. They also worsen with age as the electrolyte dries out.
It's pointless to talk about boutique capacitors. No-one ever agrees, no-one ever measures any difference.
FWIW, a lot of Special Edition £300 CD players merely had higher grade capacitors after the D/A converter. Or looking at it the other way, the cheap £100 stuff was deliberately fitted with a rubbish electrolytic capacitor! Not even NPs, the highly non-linear polar types. I used to do this upgrade myself to Marantz models. Cost about £2.
The same goes for Headphones. You can google sennheiser headphones. The cheap ones got an extra woolly pad behind the diaphragm or something. You just take it out, and you had the top model!
Also Non Polars have ESR which must be accounted for in the crossover. They also worsen with age as the electrolyte dries out.
It's pointless to talk about boutique capacitors. No-one ever agrees, no-one ever measures any difference.
FWIW, a lot of Special Edition £300 CD players merely had higher grade capacitors after the D/A converter. Or looking at it the other way, the cheap £100 stuff was deliberately fitted with a rubbish electrolytic capacitor! Not even NPs, the highly non-linear polar types. I used to do this upgrade myself to Marantz models. Cost about £2.
The same goes for Headphones. You can google sennheiser headphones. The cheap ones got an extra woolly pad behind the diaphragm or something. You just take it out, and you had the top model!
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If there's no DC bias on an electrolytic or film capacitor the distortion will be pretty low.
Worthwhile reading is Cyril Bateman's reprised "Capacitor Sound" article in Volume 9 of "Linear Audio" -- polyphenylene sulfide film caps come out quite well and are available in through hole from Kemet and Panasonic. For XO which typically use larger values, however, that largest is 2.2uF
Worthwhile reading is Cyril Bateman's reprised "Capacitor Sound" article in Volume 9 of "Linear Audio" -- polyphenylene sulfide film caps come out quite well and are available in through hole from Kemet and Panasonic. For XO which typically use larger values, however, that largest is 2.2uF
No! Down, boy. Bad, bad! Don't make me get the spray bottle!Oil.
Oil caps for that lush, liquid sound.
Skip the electrolytics, go oil.
_-_-
I did a little listening some years ago with three brands of film capacitors and 30 cent electrolytics. In 1st order tweeter and midrange crossovers I couldn't tell them apart. They all sounded clear and invisible. Well, except for one thing - tapping the films produced sounds in the drivers. Microphonics like that may account for something at refrence (deafening) levels. I'll never know. In series electronics' signal paths using almost a dozen DC blocking capacitors, I could tell electrolytics from films quite easily.
It's a possibility, mannish boy.
I wasn't exactly rigorous when I tested this 1mH coil on a simulated ground plane. See it loses inductance! But I didn't notice film capacitors having any effect on inductance when I waved them near the coil. A metal case Non-polar will be on my list of things to try next time I get the meter out. But it looks like I tried MKP, MKT and Non-polar types there.
I should explain I was interested to find the tweeter was picking up the 1kHz test tone from the inductance meter via the big coil. You could hear it!
Also should try earthing everything so some parasitic currents can flow easily!
I wasn't exactly rigorous when I tested this 1mH coil on a simulated ground plane. See it loses inductance! But I didn't notice film capacitors having any effect on inductance when I waved them near the coil. A metal case Non-polar will be on my list of things to try next time I get the meter out. But it looks like I tried MKP, MKT and Non-polar types there.
I should explain I was interested to find the tweeter was picking up the 1kHz test tone from the inductance meter via the big coil. You could hear it!
Also should try earthing everything so some parasitic currents can flow easily!
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That's a nice starfish ornament. Anyway what is it made of?
Might I suggest that if you do this with the cap, you plonk it in the middle of an air core inductor? I find it offputting when I see others doing this. What if the cap was passing a signal at the time?
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