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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

B&O Beolab 90 - adjustable directivity by DSP
B&O Beolab 90 - adjustable directivity by DSP
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Old 9th October 2015, 01:43 PM   #21
Boden is offline Boden  Netherlands
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Sorry Keyser: overlooked your reference to the AR....
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Old 9th October 2015, 01:53 PM   #22
TNT is online now TNT  Sweden
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Manual... sort of. Design spec almost... Driver selection at the end...

BeoLab 90 - Bang & Olufsen

//
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Old 9th October 2015, 03:21 PM   #23
Quip is offline Quip
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Originally Posted by Boden View Post
Does anyone here know what exactly the differences are between the B&O concept and the Ken Kantor AR Magic Loudspeaker (yes, 1985!).

BTW: what I found rather ironic is that the starting point of the current design, is a most conventional WWMTWW speaker, a design violating all controlled directivity principles..

Regards,

Eelco
The B&O does beam steering, room compensation, thermal compensation and directivity control via DSP to create a phased array with appropriate amounts of cancellation.

The AR Magic seems to me like a front-firing speaker with narrow directivity coupled to a side-firing speaker used to tune the balance of the indirect sound. I fail to see any substantial similarity except the basic aim of controlled directivity.

I'll also note B&O had a prototype that had a side-firing dipole with a front-firing speaker firing out of the dipole null that apparently has similar aims to the AR, which was abandoned.
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Old 9th January 2016, 02:34 AM   #24
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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If you're at CES, GO HEAR THIS SPEAKER
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Old 9th January 2016, 04:08 AM   #25
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quip View Post
So B&O just released their funky new flagship. Uses DSP to shape dispersion and yields excellent polar performance.

BeoLab 90: Behind the scenes earfluff and eyecandy

B&O Tech: What is “Beam Width Control”? earfluff and eyecandy
The only thing new about this is the application of beam steering to home products and also being the ugliest loudspeaker ever made. With the covers on they remind me of body bags. Like they wrapped the body of some narco-trafficer in a sack with rope and stuck them in the corner of the room. Now at least when you see a B&O system you'll know how bad it sounds before you are forced to listen to it. Har har har har......

As for beam steering, it's probably easier to understand in a simpler example such as the CAL from Meyer's Sound.

There is also a more technical discussion on the capabilities and pitfalls of this approach in this document. There are also some interesting applications of beam steering in RF. Modern WiFi routers and military radar and communication systems. Being able to steer the router's signal so that the majority of it's output is pointing towards the listening device has major benefits, especially in congested WiFi environments.

In the loudspeaker world, what's cool and excessively complicated about beam steering is that since you must be able to shape the frequency and timing of each driver on demand, the only way to do this is to have an independent power amplifier for each driver. Of course, this begs for an all digital path, from input to amplifier for simplicity and efficiency's sake. I am sure you could make this sound good, but B&O has no idea what good sounding speakers are like.

I see they are using ScanSpeak drivers. I hope they sell a lot of them, so that in a year when they are all being sold on Ebay I can salvage them for the drivers. :-) For each Beolab pair I should be able to make about 8 complete 5.1 home theater systems.

I reserve the right to edit this post to add additional cynicism at a future date, regardless of how much of it may be true.

Erik
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Last edited by eriksquires; 9th January 2016 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 9th January 2016, 09:29 AM   #26
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
If you're at CES, GO HEAR THIS SPEAKER
Are you going? I bet they will sound awesome. Despite the coloured post above me I do have faith in B&O. They probably won't sound like the usual "Boom and Tizz" of the upper market but to me that's actually a good thing. I bet they sound like music is supposed to sound. Hope to read some reports soon.

Last edited by wesayso; 9th January 2016 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 9th January 2016, 04:05 PM   #27
WaVeInFoRm is offline WaVeInFoRm
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Wow **** thats ugly.
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Old 9th January 2016, 05:31 PM   #28
mpa is offline mpa  United Kingdom
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I'll reserve judgement until I hear a pair but all the PA offerings I've heard with beam steering sound somehow 'fake' and unnatural to me.(although the steering seems to work reasonably well) Too much DSP trickery!
Maybe KISS principle is best??
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Old 9th January 2016, 05:46 PM   #29
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Originally Posted by mpa View Post
I'll reserve judgement until I hear a pair but all the PA offerings I've heard with beam steering sound somehow 'fake' and unnatural to me.(although the steering seems to work reasonably well) Too much DSP trickery!
Maybe KISS principle is best??
Since about 90% of the shows you would hear using beam steering use digital consoles with tons of DSP on each of 32-64+ channels of mix, hard to tell what "DSP trickery" is sounding "fake and unnatural" to you.

Did you happen to hear Tom Petty's last tour with the EAW Anya system and Robert Scovill mixing?

Last edited by weltersys; 9th January 2016 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 9th January 2016, 05:57 PM   #30
mpa is offline mpa  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Since about 90% of the shows you would hear using beam steering use digital consoles with tons of DSP on each of 32-64+ channels of mix, hard to tell what "DSP trickery" is sounding "fake and unnatural" to you
I have been a live sound engineer myself for nearly 20 years so have had the opportunity to compare these systems using the same desks etc. They just don't sound as natural to me as older,simpler systems but with PA it's usually a battle against room acoustics and this is where the steered systems will win.
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