I would like to make a small 2-way system for use with AVR and Tuba HT 24" Subwoofer that has really strong upper mid and high frequencies.
Admittedly, my ears are kind of fried after playing drums and doing pro sound work for 40 years, so I would like to make some speakers that bring out mids and highs for hi hats and cymbals.
I have quite a few woofers of various sizes and tweeters I can use for the system. Maybe I need to use multiple tweeters? I have some pro woofers, horns/drivers, tweeters, too.
I don't know what I am doing wrong but the systems I have recently built - even kits - seem woefully lacking in the upper mids and highs I like to hear. The system's bass is great but I just don't hear any sparkle.
Ugh, and double Ugh!!!
In my car Buick with stock Concert Sound II system with added JBL sub - the high end is crispy and clean but then i go home to hear my pricey DIY speakers and the sound milky and have no sparkle or sizzle. There are some EQ presets on car system that makes it stronger, but it seems like I should be getting better sound from my home system.
For an AVR I use the Denon AVR3000 with 120W per channel in 5.1 setup.
The subwoofer is fine so I don't need help with it.
I just want to make a pair of front LR and Center speakers that work well above 80Hz and have a bright sound that most audiophiles think is awful
Maybe the problems with my systems are in the crossovers? I have used Jeff Bagby's Excel tools and all kinds of online crossover calculators; I have bought really expensive crossover parts; tried time alignment; pu up acoustical wall treatment and nothing seems to give the speakers the sizzle and sparkle I would like to hear.
Current 2 Way WTW System Parts:
Tweeter 4 Ohm- Vifa BC26TG15-04
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ters/vifa-bc25tg15-04-1-textile-dome-tweeter/
Woofers 12 Ohm - Jamo 7"
JAMO 20427 7" Treated Paper Cone Woofer 12 Ohm
7" woofer with treated paper cone, rubber surround, and 4-layer VC. Long voice coil former and wide, deep-rolled spider permit generous cone excursion for extended bass output. Oversized stamped steel basket. Recommended for bass or midrange duties in vented and sealed enclosures. Buyout, limited quantities. Specifications: *Power handling: 80 watts RMS/160 watts max *VCdia: 1" *Le: 1.13 mH *Impedance: 12 ohms *Re: 8.66 ohms *Frequency response: 40-4,000 Hz *Fs: 45 Hz *SPL: 87 dB 1W/1m *Vas: 0.81 cu. ft. *Qms: 4.43 *Qes: 0.61 *Qts: 0.54 *Xmax: 2 mm *Dimensions: A: 7-1/16", B: 5-3/4", C: 2-7/8".
I am just going to use budget/cheap drivers but the crossover parts are good Dayton metalized caps and Solen or Jantzen medium to heavy gauge inductors.
Thanks for your help in advance.
Admittedly, my ears are kind of fried after playing drums and doing pro sound work for 40 years, so I would like to make some speakers that bring out mids and highs for hi hats and cymbals.
I have quite a few woofers of various sizes and tweeters I can use for the system. Maybe I need to use multiple tweeters? I have some pro woofers, horns/drivers, tweeters, too.
I don't know what I am doing wrong but the systems I have recently built - even kits - seem woefully lacking in the upper mids and highs I like to hear. The system's bass is great but I just don't hear any sparkle.
Ugh, and double Ugh!!!
In my car Buick with stock Concert Sound II system with added JBL sub - the high end is crispy and clean but then i go home to hear my pricey DIY speakers and the sound milky and have no sparkle or sizzle. There are some EQ presets on car system that makes it stronger, but it seems like I should be getting better sound from my home system.
For an AVR I use the Denon AVR3000 with 120W per channel in 5.1 setup.
The subwoofer is fine so I don't need help with it.
I just want to make a pair of front LR and Center speakers that work well above 80Hz and have a bright sound that most audiophiles think is awful
Maybe the problems with my systems are in the crossovers? I have used Jeff Bagby's Excel tools and all kinds of online crossover calculators; I have bought really expensive crossover parts; tried time alignment; pu up acoustical wall treatment and nothing seems to give the speakers the sizzle and sparkle I would like to hear.
Current 2 Way WTW System Parts:
Tweeter 4 Ohm- Vifa BC26TG15-04
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ters/vifa-bc25tg15-04-1-textile-dome-tweeter/
Woofers 12 Ohm - Jamo 7"
JAMO 20427 7" Treated Paper Cone Woofer 12 Ohm
7" woofer with treated paper cone, rubber surround, and 4-layer VC. Long voice coil former and wide, deep-rolled spider permit generous cone excursion for extended bass output. Oversized stamped steel basket. Recommended for bass or midrange duties in vented and sealed enclosures. Buyout, limited quantities. Specifications: *Power handling: 80 watts RMS/160 watts max *VCdia: 1" *Le: 1.13 mH *Impedance: 12 ohms *Re: 8.66 ohms *Frequency response: 40-4,000 Hz *Fs: 45 Hz *SPL: 87 dB 1W/1m *Vas: 0.81 cu. ft. *Qms: 4.43 *Qes: 0.61 *Qts: 0.54 *Xmax: 2 mm *Dimensions: A: 7-1/16", B: 5-3/4", C: 2-7/8".
I am just going to use budget/cheap drivers but the crossover parts are good Dayton metalized caps and Solen or Jantzen medium to heavy gauge inductors.
Thanks for your help in advance.
Thank you, ODougbo.
You may be right. I have an active crossover and big amps w total of over 2kW but I want something for use with an AVR.
The current project has a 1st order LP and 3rd at 1.6k
I added Zobels and notch filter, and res filters after reading more on here about woofer cone breakup and notch filters.
The tweeter is less efficient than I thought at 89 db. With the 2 small woofers at 87 db I may need different ones.
Thanks again.
You may be right. I have an active crossover and big amps w total of over 2kW but I want something for use with an AVR.
The current project has a 1st order LP and 3rd at 1.6k
I added Zobels and notch filter, and res filters after reading more on here about woofer cone breakup and notch filters.
The tweeter is less efficient than I thought at 89 db. With the 2 small woofers at 87 db I may need different ones.
Thanks again.
After applying a Notch Filter using 2uf cap, .5mH ind, 3.5 Ohm res, I can tell a very big improvement already.
This makes me question my use of 1 order LP filters. Jim Thiel used 1st order filters and made it work but my own experiments don't seem very successful.
I have been using 1st order filters to reduce cost and in hopes to get better sound with a 120W per channel AVR.
Maybe the use of a horn loaded tweeter like the one below would help HF projection?
Tymphany H25TG05-08 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter with Waveguide 8 Ohm
Thanks again
This makes me question my use of 1 order LP filters. Jim Thiel used 1st order filters and made it work but my own experiments don't seem very successful.
I have been using 1st order filters to reduce cost and in hopes to get better sound with a 120W per channel AVR.
Maybe the use of a horn loaded tweeter like the one below would help HF projection?
Tymphany H25TG05-08 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter with Waveguide 8 Ohm
Thanks again
After applying a Notch Filter using 2uf cap, .5mH ind, 3.5 Ohm res, I can tell a very big improvement already.
This makes me question my use of 1st order LP filters. Jim Thiel used 1st order filters and made it work but my own experiments don't seem very successful.
I have been using 1st order filters to reduce cost and in hopes to get better sound with a 120W per channel AVR.
Maybe the use of a horn loaded tweeter like the one below would help HF projection?
Tymphany H25TG05-08 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter with Waveguide 8 Ohm
Thanks again
This makes me question my use of 1st order LP filters. Jim Thiel used 1st order filters and made it work but my own experiments don't seem very successful.
I have been using 1st order filters to reduce cost and in hopes to get better sound with a 120W per channel AVR.
Maybe the use of a horn loaded tweeter like the one below would help HF projection?
Tymphany H25TG05-08 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter with Waveguide 8 Ohm
Thanks again
I'm sure you meant MTM?
I never found a 5.1 AVR that had good two channel out.
Luckily a neighbor gifted me a Luxman receiver with pre-outs.
Computer-Receiver-mini xo-twin power amps.
My old tweeters never sounded so good.
Yes hold on, don't buy any more speakers right now.
Do you have a calibrated mic?
I never found a 5.1 AVR that had good two channel out.
Luckily a neighbor gifted me a Luxman receiver with pre-outs.
Computer-Receiver-mini xo-twin power amps.
My old tweeters never sounded so good.
Yes hold on, don't buy any more speakers right now.
Do you have a calibrated mic?
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If you want a speaker with a bit of slam and liveliness, you probably want a well-designed 3 way:
SEAS-3-Way-Classic
Alternatively, you might investigate PA type speakers.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/147632-classic-monitor-designs-25.html#post4428857
Liveliness usually equates to low stored energy, aka High Qms. Bassy, high Le inductance drivers are usually going in the other direction.
SEAS-3-Way-Classic
Alternatively, you might investigate PA type speakers.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/147632-classic-monitor-designs-25.html#post4428857
Liveliness usually equates to low stored energy, aka High Qms. Bassy, high Le inductance drivers are usually going in the other direction.
Hearing aids ?
And yes I'm being serious.
My dad is profoundly deaf, and when he sucked up his ego and tried listening with his hearing aids he himself admitted he was gob smacked at the difference and all the high end that he was missing out on without them.
So, I second Stretens advice.
Go get tested first.
And yes I'm being serious.
My dad is profoundly deaf, and when he sucked up his ego and tried listening with his hearing aids he himself admitted he was gob smacked at the difference and all the high end that he was missing out on without them.
So, I second Stretens advice.
Go get tested first.
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