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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

S. Harsch XO
S. Harsch XO
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Old 14th March 2018, 01:09 AM   #451
mkane77g is offline mkane77g  United States
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S. Harsch XO
Cant get the woofer textbook to show. How do I manipulate the measurement? manually or with the auto feature. The auto feature seems limited. actually, I'm the one limited.
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Old 14th March 2018, 01:51 AM   #452
BYRTT is online now BYRTT  Denmark
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S. Harsch XO
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkane77g View Post
Cant get the woofer textbook to show. How do I manipulate the measurement? manually or with the auto feature. The auto feature seems limited. actually, I'm the one limited.
Target curve you show there is the outdated 80Hz BS2 where my post 441 have the two LR4 targets up at 160Hz we target for now and down the road when we transfer back to Harsh then post 418 have those LP BW4 / HP BS2 @160Hz attached.

Have traced your not bad latest mid tweeter curve and overlaid to target curve, tips import the right target curve and for REW to remember changes when opening session next time, go "File" "Save all measurements" "enter a note in dialog" and point to same name that was the opening up file or give it a new name if its a new session. To manipulate target file up or downwards in SPL use the "Controls" in upper right corner and look for "Offset" and once again if you want changes to be remembered go "File" "Save all measurements" etc...
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Last edited by BYRTT; 14th March 2018 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 14th March 2018, 02:26 AM   #453
mkane77g is offline mkane77g  United States
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S. Harsch XO
I'm not sure where to set this. It's at -1.5. With and without window.
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File Type: jpg 111.jpg (70.7 KB, 67 views)

Last edited by mkane77g; 14th March 2018 at 02:29 AM.
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Old 14th March 2018, 02:35 AM   #454
mkane77g is offline mkane77g  United States
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S. Harsch XO
BYRTT, I need to sign out for the evening. Wifes home and dinners ready. I really appreciate your help. This stuffs tough for me to come to grips with but I'm not a quitter.
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Old 14th March 2018, 02:37 AM   #455
BYRTT is online now BYRTT  Denmark
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S. Harsch XO
I'm not shure too but many times seen its practice to offset exactly relative to 1kHz point and there you only 0,1 or 0,2 dB far but for curves with ripple as here guess a average in middle of those ripples is fine so you probably there by now for the one you show there that use the old 80Hz target file.


EDIT Great its also middle in the night here, Bon appetite see you tomorrow.

Last edited by BYRTT; 14th March 2018 at 03:01 AM.
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Old 14th March 2018, 06:35 AM   #456
perceval is offline perceval  Taiwan
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Good night Byrtt!

All this talk made me re-visit my setup.
Talking with Byrtt a while back, he mentioned to me as well, not to use the XO in the miniDSP but "forge" the curves with PEQ.

I had tried a couple of times previously, but could never do something I like and that looked like a XO curve! So, I would just revert to the XO in the miniDSP and said to myself: "Next time!"

Well, today was the day, I thought.
I sat down in front of the computer, mic at listening position (oops, now I realize... should I have done my measurements at 1m off the baffle?), and go!

Took me 2 hours, but it came out better than all my previous attempts.

Sound improved as well. Cleaner, clearer and funny thing, the 1772 didn't so much adjustments this time around.

I have huge glitches with my sound card. It pops internally, so, the big peaks at 60Hz, and in the high end of the 1772 are glitches. I was able to run a couple of cleaner sweeps, without pops.

I like the improvements. Sound is more detailed, I hear more things.

Config1 is with the miniDSP XO (Harsch) and Config2 is my attempt at following the curves of the Harsch XO with PEQ only. There is a slight added PEQ on the combined curve to take out some peaks and flatten the FR.
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File Type: jpg config 1 with XO.jpg (88.3 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg config1 Imp.jpg (94.9 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg config3 PEQ only.jpg (92.6 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg config3 Imp.jpg (84.9 KB, 19 views)
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Old 14th March 2018, 08:59 AM   #457
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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perceval, you shold play with delays more. Try to add more delay to highpassed section (mains) and then look at summed output and step response form.


I got huge improvement in sub/lowbass integration after setting LR2 slopes instead of LR4. It improves timing/phase and I feel that bass is unbelievably tighter and punchier. My xos were 80-160Hz I tried tens of arrangements!
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Old 14th March 2018, 09:02 AM   #458
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Have you tried brutal LR8?
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Old 14th March 2018, 09:13 AM   #459
perceval is offline perceval  Taiwan
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I haven't tried brutal LR8. I'll stick to try making the Harsch workout well, then move to something else to compare.

Juhazi, I have 1.65ms delay on the 1771, which at 300Hz XO point is half the period, as it is prescribed with the Harsch XO. I could try to change the delay to find how it will affect the response.
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Old 14th March 2018, 09:16 AM   #460
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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@Perceval, if this second graph:
Click the image to open in full size.

is done by PEQ only, you should set a highpass filter at 100 Hz on the tweeter and a lowpass at 800 Hz on the woofer. It won't influence the curves as the SLP is down already but it will prevent the tweeter (well a big one ) to do low end and the woofer to have to sing the high notes. It might be easier to take the first setting and use PEQ to get them aligned with the targets. Just prevent them to climb back up as they will be out of phase there.
After that you can play with the timing of the tweeter to get the right summing at the crossover. I'd use 6 cycle FDW filters, not psy for this...
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