. Fs is/was approx. 50hz in all of them without any real burn in.
I wont be using them that high but in theory they could work up to 600hz despite being 15" line array (even without xo'ing lower the top/bottom driver). First line array comb filtering null appears somewhere at 800hz (at least I think it's because of comb filtering). The small distancing and the cones normal directivity seems to reduce the crosstalk between drivers' "radiated sound cones" which lessens the comb filtering or sth.
I wont be using them like regular subs either ("steep xo at 50hz"). 1st or 2nd order filter at ~100-200hz (acoustically) maybe.
5ms time window (measurement mic at 210cm distance and at different heights at ~20cm steps. Line array without xo):
10ms time window:
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Last 12 years I spent on horns and "Synergy's" changing them every year. Chasing a dream))). Lately for midbass I had an Altec 416 replaced by brilliant Stephen Trusonic 15Fr driver which have everything - tone, kick, realism and so on like no others. I really like the sound of it but you got to pay a price - it's huuuuge and bandwidth is limited as all horns.
Last year we moved to Florida and I can't build 5 way horn system, need something simpler yet effective.
For sub duty I have 400L BP with AE18H (thank you Circlomanen) it works good below 60hz but it's too big for the place.
For midrange I got 8" JBL2169 in WG, for highs - JBL2435h beryllium+supertweeter.
To cover 50-350hz I considering two options:
1. 4 x15" 2 Line arrows.
2. Something like this - mid and high horns surrounded from four sides by woofers. Not sure how this configuration will affect the sound.
I'm surprise by your graph, it's seems that your woofers flat from 40hz(???) up to 700? When I tried to model it in closed box they dived like a rock from 70hz. Is it a room effect?
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No no, that was what small time window does to the response.
Sealed woofers get full room gain below the lowest room mode, if the room is sealed. In some of my ex-apartments sealed 18" pro-woofer subs went to ~7Hz straight with s small shelf-filter.
In my current room sealed subs don't go that low. The response drops nearly 12dB/okt, maybe the room is too leaky. I also measure with a SE tube amp, tube pre and tube dac which are not a DC-1MHz amps. Should make some reference measurement with full "sand amps" in the signal chain.
Here's the response and step of my current setup hORNS Mummys + subs filtered 1st order quite high (10mH series coil). Subs contribute to around ~300Hz. Need "some" level matching
Sealed line array with lots of Sd is a beast. Every bass note can be felt, almost like I would be standing near my ex synergy horn mouth, except I'm sitting 2,2m away from the line arrays.
edit. by the way, this is how they currently are:
Sealed woofers get full room gain below the lowest room mode, if the room is sealed. In some of my ex-apartments sealed 18" pro-woofer subs went to ~7Hz straight with s small shelf-filter.
In my current room sealed subs don't go that low. The response drops nearly 12dB/okt, maybe the room is too leaky. I also measure with a SE tube amp, tube pre and tube dac which are not a DC-1MHz amps
. Should make some reference measurement with full "sand amps" in the signal chain.Here's the response and step of my current setup hORNS Mummys + subs filtered 1st order quite high (10mH series coil). Subs contribute to around ~300Hz. Need "some" level matching
Sealed line array with lots of Sd is a beast. Every bass note can be felt, almost like I would be standing near my ex synergy horn mouth, except I'm sitting 2,2m away from the line arrays.
edit. by the way, this is how they currently are:
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I don't miss my BMS woofers, let's put it this way
. They were ok for dipole and TH sub applications though. The taste and the "vision" just changes as one passes through different drivers, some go, some stay. I use BMS's smallest neo compression driver's HE-version though and like it.Every module is 65cm wide, 115cm tall and 40cm deep. C-t-c distance of the woofers approx. 57cm.
In an active dsp-system sealed subs are very easy to tailor to reach sub 10hz. Au naturel -applications like mine are more like you get what your room and speaker location combination gives you
The reason why sealed subs reach low in a sealed rooms is that the room gain below lowest room mode is 12dB/oct, and sealed systems response decreases 12dB/oct. In reality the room gain is not 12dB/oct but something less even in the most sealed rooms, but it almost nullifies the selaed subs' decreasing response and makes it much flatter. If the room leaks too much, the room gain is much less.
The difference in H3 and H5 above system resonance between regular motor Sovereign Pro 12-500 and copper shorting sleeved FC-153F01 is quite big.
I wish Fane had a similar 12" woofer with round outer rim. Fane Colossus 12MB would be perfect (also very low impedance at 20khz, tells that the Eddy current shorting system is very effective) - but could be mounted only after using angle grinder 1cm too wide rim for Mummy's flush mounting hole.
"Use harmonic frequency as reference" spot ticked in plots. Also don't mind the percentages in the legend.
I wish Fane had a similar 12" woofer with round outer rim. Fane Colossus 12MB would be perfect (also very low impedance at 20khz, tells that the Eddy current shorting system is very effective) - but could be mounted only after using angle grinder
1cm too wide rim for Mummy's flush mounting hole."Use harmonic frequency as reference" spot ticked in plots. Also don't mind the percentages in the legend.
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[QUOTE=Legis;
Every module is 65cm wide, 115cm tall and 40cm deep. C-t-c distance of the woofers approx. 57cm.
In ideal situation C-TO-C distance between the left and right arrays woofers should be 57cm also, but we leave in word of compromises
What you think will happen if woofers will moved from the center of cabinets to one side - left array to left side and right to right? Will the lobing change?
Every module is 65cm wide, 115cm tall and 40cm deep. C-t-c distance of the woofers approx. 57cm.
In ideal situation C-TO-C distance between the left and right arrays woofers should be 57cm also, but we leave in word of compromises
What you think will happen if woofers will moved from the center of cabinets to one side - left array to left side and right to right? Will the lobing change?
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I mentioned not to pay attention to the legend in the pics, I should have removed them
. The mouse cursor was somewhere randomly at very low bass (where the legend snapshot was taken) and does not repserent their spl difference.I will measure them again with xo later.
The measurement voltage was the same but the other is 12" point source and other 4*15" line source wired to 8 ohms (so there is series connection/voltage dividation between two woofers). I measured the line source from 2cm away from one of the dust caps, same as the 12" sovereign pro. H3 and H5 stay relatively same to fundamental at higher freqs regardless of drive level because their generation mechanic is different. The absolute drive level is not thus as important as with H2.
In ideal situation C-TO-C distance between the left and right arrays woofers should be 57cm also, but we leave in word of compromises
What you think will happen if woofers will moved from the center of cabinets to one side - left array to left side and right to right? Will the lobing change?
Now measured more accurately, between the drivers in each module it's 55cm and between the modules vertically the ctc is ~61cm and ~64cm horizontally between left-right modules when side by side. Quite close.
Yes it changes the horizontal lobing somewhere higher up, and also the edge diffraction profile. Edge or Vituixcad can estimate these differences in freqs where the driver behaves pistonic. If you gonna use 350hz xo there will be no problems I presume however you choose to put them. The visual impression and symmetricality etc. you want to create could likely be the deciding factor.
edit. by the way, this is how they currently are:
Me think u have too small coils in x-over
I mentioned not to pay attention to the legend in the pics, I should have removed them
Okido!
However why don't you use a plate amp for subs?
