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Old 13th July 2015, 02:59 AM   #1
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Default Enamelled wire for speaker cable

I did a search and found no recent experiments with speaker wires.
While checking on skin depth issues I found that wires smaller than 20 swg had 100% area utilisation below 27 Khz.
So I got some 21 swg enamelled wire and made some simple speaker wires. Each wire is made of a pair of 2 meter lengths ,soldered at the ends. The two are lightly twisted together. Another pair for the -ve line. I also lightly twisted the +ve and -ve lines together. No additional insulation was used.

Compared to standard OFC 2.5 sq mm speaker cable it sounds far superior. treble cleaned up a lot and transients had more bite or clarity. Additionally it seemed to remove a 'veil' from the 'sound'. Never expected this difference.

My cable lengths are small. For longer lengths you might need to add more parallel sections. I'll add silicone coated cotton insulation for protection from shorts and damage. I was about to buy a large roll of OFC speaker wire. Just saved myself a packet of money and got better sound !

Lots of people have used enamelled wire before but I was not able to find any listening reports on them.I saw some threads from 2004 ! Are there any recent listening tests reported anywhere ? There must be, just that I haven't found them yet.
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Old 13th July 2015, 04:40 AM   #2
jcx is offline jcx  United States
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Default LCR is all you need in the typical home listening room

"bunch wiring" is a cheaper alternative to Litz

but measurements just show some measurable skin/proximity effect in the last octave with even zip cord

http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_spkr_cable.pdf

Pass measured 14 mOhm DC, rising to <50 mOhm/ft in 18 gage zipcord by 20 kHz - that would need 20 ft to get 1 dB rise with 8 Ohm speakers

should compare with Clark's ABX frequency response jnd threshold curves

Quote:
...
Clark, David L., "High-Resolution Subjective Testing Using a Double-Blind Comparator", Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol. 30 No. 5, May 1982, pp. 330-338

ABX Amplitude vs. Frequency Matching Criteria
Click the image to open in full size.

it seems like in most home audio speaker cable situations skin/proximity effects will not be expected to reach audibility

Last edited by jcx; 13th July 2015 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 13th July 2015, 05:03 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcx View Post
"bunch wiring" is a cheaper alternative to Litz
Uh ?! I thought that Ashok was talking about solid copper

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashok View Post
soldered at the ends.
Also not soldered, as it introduces another X?Y to "transmission"

Yesterday I did the same steps in doing the pick-up cabling.
Very thin wire that has to be wrapped on the pin.
Hot shrink tube makes the rest
( wrapping by hand and without tools don't make sense because it gets loose quickly )

Strange: a very high pitch note is produced at very high volume ( the TT is just beside a speaker )
TD 165 it's just a mess of TT
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Old 13th July 2015, 05:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picowallspeaker View Post
Strange: a very high pitch note is produced at very high volume ( the TT is just beside a speaker )
TD 165 it's just a mess of TT
Is it the famous 1 kHz spike I see everywhere ?



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Old 13th July 2015, 07:57 AM   #5
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Thanks for those links JCX. I have seen those reports earlier.
I do agree that the cable impedance does rise rather slowly at 20 Khz and 'looks like' it shouldn't matter at all. In fact if there was going to be any change I expected 'loose bass' due to increased dc resistance and dulled HF compared to the finely stranded 2.5 sq mm OFC cable. The cable ( each one) is made up of three sets of copper wires. Each one being made up of a bunch of fine strands. So that's a lot of fine (non insulated) strands.

I was surprised to hear VERY clean attack on kettle drums and other transient sounds. Additionally as I said before it appeared to lift a veil off the sound. The 'decay' of sound was very fast I think , causing it to sound cleaner with better separation of different sounds. I can't think of any other reason. Or did the OFC cable act as a better RF antenna and return more spurious RF back to the amp causing it to sound 'poorer' ?
Low level sounds also appeared to be clearer and one could almost pinpoint them which was quite different from the OFC cable.

I'll put up some track names that I have tried and maybe someone else could try them out and report back what they hear. I will now make a another pair for the second speaker and see how it sounds in stereo.

About the soldered connection by 'Picowallspeaker' ! They are soldered but they are terminated in twin banana connectors. the screw is actually sitting on the stripped copper. The end sticking out of the screw hole ( the last bit ) is soldered so that it doesn't unravel. So there is no 'lead' in the way !

I do wish someone would try this as it's so easy to do and see what they find.
Without any tools it's a pain to twist the wires together,I'm impatient. I'll get help next time and use my electric screwdriver to twist the wires. Maybe with thinner wires as they are more flexible.
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Old 13th July 2015, 02:15 PM   #6
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I mean very thin wires : I got them from a mechanic transducer ( a solenoid !! )
they're for wiring the head/pick-up to the (phono)preamplifier and no inside tonearm wire thru but external. At one side they're soldered -yes, that's very durable ! ( I may try the rca plugs with the screw...) and on the pick-up side they're "fixed" somehow
I don't expect any electrical arch in that point !!

Same on reverse to the speaker side: the enamel is stripped away and wrapped by the buttonhole of speaker's binding post, and a gum sheath or hot shrink tube makes it durable.
I don't think I'm gonna use banana connectors or other types anymore.

Oh yes, the coils & caps & resistors has got to be fixed somewhere...somehow
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Old 13th July 2015, 05:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashok View Post
Compared to standard OFC 2.5 sq mm speaker cable it sounds far superior. treble cleaned up a lot and transients had more bite or clarity. Additionally it seemed to remove a 'veil' from the 'sound'. Never expected this difference.
Similar to my experience.

dave
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Old 13th July 2015, 06:14 PM   #8
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Hi, may i ask if you thought about the maximum current a small gauge copper-wire is able to deliver?
I'm an electrician so i have some concerns when i read about experiments with thin wires.
What i wish to say is that it it is important to think about your and your families safety.
I know there is not much voltage so touching is not an issue but if a wire have a short be sure nothing is happening...

Sorry for sounding like a teacher
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Old 13th July 2015, 06:19 PM   #9
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Hi Dave,
Did you use the same size wire or thinner guage ?
The inductance goes up with more parallel wires and at some point it might start loosing out on it's gains. I'll be trying thinner guage with up to 8 or more wires per section ( +ve and -ve ). I want to keep the loop resistance approximately below Rdc of speaker / 25 . I'm tending to think that 24 SWG might be a good place to start the next test. But before that I have to listen to the 'wires' in stereo mode. Right now I am doing it in mono !

The wires will eventually be insulated between the +ve and -ve sections. The current capacity is about 12 amps continuous as I use them and on music it will be much more. There is hardly any insulation and so it will radiate heat better. As it is it should be OK in a system that can deliver 300 watts into 4 ohms ( more into 8 ohms). So for my use ( about 120 watts/4 ohms) it will be OK.
I do plan to try out four wires in parallel that will increase the power delivery even more. ( I^2 x R ) So no problem with load carrying capacity. Short circuit shouldn't happen unless there is a defect or wires get scraped, for which some additional minimal insulating sleeve should be OK.
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Last edited by ashok; 13th July 2015 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 13th July 2015, 06:39 PM   #10
jcx is offline jcx  United States
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you can just buy Litz looks like 18 gage is 60x 36 Litz Wire

Litz Wire, Litz Profiled Cable, Litz Extrusions, Custom Litz Wire, High Frequency Magnet Litzwire, Stranded, Served, Profiled, Taping, Braiding, PVC, and FEP | The Litz People your Litz wire manufacturer ...

Last edited by jcx; 13th July 2015 at 06:48 PM.
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