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Old 20th June 2015, 11:17 AM   #1
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Default Scanspeak 4531g bookshelf design help

I have a pair of unused 18w4531g00's and R3004/602000's lying around as I was going to use them in the car but went for horns instead. So I figured I'd turn them into a bookshelf speakers as my amp is 4ohm stable

I'm fairly new to this side of audio. I ran the tsp's through winisd and came out with 13.6L for sealed which is fine by me. Although madisound recommend 0.3-0.4 cu ft..

Would anyone recommend anything different?
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Old 20th June 2015, 12:09 PM   #2
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What works in a car doesn't necessarily work at home. In this case doing a sealed cab means a too high F3, if the use is without a sub.
Without sub the smallest cab I'd do is some 25L tuned to 35Hz (vented), as this driver is really optimized for a vented cab. Play with unibox (free) to run some simulations.

However choosing a suitable box is only the smallest problem. Are you able to design a custom crossover that those drivers deserve? Have a look at this sticky for a design methodology (I prefer post #20): Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement

Ralf
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Old 20th June 2015, 12:36 PM   #3
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

A vented floorstander is the best option for no sub use.

A high quality x/o needs to be developed, very
similar to Zaph|Audio - ZRT - Revelator Tower.
Except of course, your dealing with 4 ohm drivers.

rgds, sreten.
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Last edited by sreten; 20th June 2015 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 20th June 2015, 02:46 PM   #4
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Must say that I'm confused how many people have expensive units lying around without having a clue of what to do with them...
But I fully agree with Ralf and sreten. Dutch distributor Audiocomponents has developed the Reference Monitor. Slightly different tweeter, but the enclosure design works pretty good as I have experienced.
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Old 21st June 2015, 01:49 AM   #5
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Thanks everyone. I can use a sub, but I'd have to get a minidsp plate amp or similar which I don't plan on doing for a little while. I have a whole lot of car audio SQ subs lying around so I might try those out in a few months when I get bored (boston g5, image dynamics idq12, idq10).

I sell car audio, so I have a lot of car audio lying around. These were intended for a car but I instead went with a horn/high sensitivity setup (a lot easier having a crossover at 800-1.25khz rather than 2.5khz up)

I was going to attack the crossover problem after I decide on an enclosure. I've had an offer of help with the crossover, Madisound have a crossover for this pair and zaph has one for the zrt I can reference to. I do have a umik I do measurements with also.

I'm getting results between 26L and 52L ported between winisd and unibox.. I guess I have a bit of learning to do with box simulations..
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Old 21st June 2015, 04:01 AM   #6
system7 is online now system7  United Kingdom
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I think you have the wrong tweeter there. A 4 ohm Scanspeak R3004/6020 ring radiator car tweeter is not the sort of thing most domestic amplifiers are going to like driving. I'm not saying you couldn't get it working, but it'll be hard work and probably need third order.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...ring-radiator/

You could return to the mainstream with a 104mm Vifa XT25 or Scan equivalent. Troels looks at a few variations on the W18 and ring radiator theme here. I suspect cabinet could be anything between 15L and 40L reflex really.
18W-8434G00

The 4 and 8 ohm versions of your bass driver look remarkably similar:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-woofer-4-ohm/
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-woofer-8-ohm/

They even work on the same crossover. Much as I admire markbakk's very concrete suggestion for a Audiocomponents filter below, it falls into Troels' "Not to be Tried" category below.

Why? Well it doesn't do justice to the 6" Scanspeak bass. He invariably uses a midrange notch around 700Hz to get the sound right.
Studio-101

6" bass is a hard speaker IMO. It needs a complex crossover. Otherwise you are just building a middle of the road 4 ohm bass commercial design below.
www.audioexcite.com Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 review part 3
Attached Images
File Type: png Scanspeak Audio Components.PNG (46.8 KB, 152 views)
File Type: png Troels Gravesen Scanspeak.PNG (48.2 KB, 150 views)
File Type: png Wharfedale Diamond 10.2.PNG (51.3 KB, 146 views)
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Old 21st June 2015, 03:04 PM   #7
Jonasz is offline Jonasz  Sweden
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Any decent amplifier, maybe apart from the cheapest htreceivers, should be able to handle a four ohm impedance even if it dips down to three ohms. IMHO.
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Old 21st June 2015, 03:54 PM   #8
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

I agree the tweeter is not ideal and will be hard work to get right.
I wouldn't consider it for a second if I did not actually have it.

Note that the madisound x/o, if for in car use, will be wrong.

The x/o topology I'd expect to be similar to the ZRT :

Click the image to open in full size.

Box volume around 30L, search on Undefinitions
Commodore box design, it should be ideal.
(Its based on a Totem design aesthetic.)

Click the image to open in full size.
rgds, sreten.
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Last edited by sreten; 21st June 2015 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 21st June 2015, 05:19 PM   #9
Jonasz is offline Jonasz  Sweden
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None of the ringradiators should be crossed to a 7", they don't go low enough with low distortion.
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Old 21st June 2015, 10:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
Much as I admire markbakk's very concrete suggestion for a Audiocomponents filter below, it falls into Troels' "Not to be Tried" category below.

Why? Well it doesn't do justice to the 6" Scanspeak bass. He invariably uses a midrange notch around 700Hz to get the sound right.
Midrange notches almost invariably work better than the usual oversized coil in correcting baffle step functions. As I found some 25 years ago... But optimal designs often neglect the simple fact that most speakers do not get the proper placement they deserve. As for the Audiocomponents scheme, it is as simple as they come, while very effective.
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