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Old 11th May 2015, 01:59 AM   #1
DearS is offline DearS  United States
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Default Help First Build: Enclosore, Kairos

Hi Everyone,

I am working on my first build, the Kairos kit from Meniscus. I spent a lot of times cutting the correct length 14 degree angles cuts for the front of the cabinet using a band saw and table saw. The sides (my friend) but for me with the hand saw are not flat when meeting with the front baffle. My question is how do I even out the edge to line up with the front battle nicely? Do I sand it down? How can I sand it down properly?
what about the top and bottom of the cabinet, how can I sand down how a millimeter or two evenly?

Also how do I know if I soldered the crossover connections well? I looped the leads around each other and soldered, I tested the speakers in a cardboard box and they make sounds ok . I'll see if I can take a pick.

Thanks all!
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Old 11th May 2015, 05:56 AM   #2
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington, USA
Best bet is to use a 15 degree chamfer bit with a pilot. 1 degree off on a 3/4 inch piece amounts to a gap of <1mm. If its made of MDF, you could probably do some gentle sanding with a block. Accuracy won't be perfect but good enough for a PVA glue join-up. Have you already glue up the sidewalls? If you have, hand sanding with a block might be your only option...
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Old 11th May 2015, 05:58 AM   #3
DearS is offline DearS  United States
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Thank you, I have not glued anything together yet. thank you, I'll work on sanding things down and measuring it again.
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Old 11th May 2015, 06:21 AM   #4
DearS is offline DearS  United States
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Do you know if a sanding sponge (medium grade) will work ok?

thanks
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Old 11th May 2015, 08:05 AM   #5
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No idea about the sanding sponge. Give it a whirl. Lots of people use sanding blocks but if you wanted to be really technical, those aren't perfectly flat either. The tolerances are reasonable on a block, no idea about the sponge.

I re-read your first post and I'm a bit confused. Is the issue the side panels not having straight edges where they meet the front baffle? Or is it the top and bottom panels that don't have 14 degree edges where the meet the front baffle? One problem is solved with a 15deg chamfer bit. The other with either a flush trim router bit and a long straight edge, a table router with a big cross cut sled (ideal since you can use the sled to run the piece against the fence and just trim off a tiny bit at a time) , or a big crosscut sled for your table saw and some steady hands.(not recommended)

Just some friendly words of advice as I gather you're not the most experienced carpenter since you're asking us this question. If you already know this stuff, just ignore it

Unless you've got a micrometer/vernier gauge, you're probably going to end up with some overhang on your pieces. This won't be the case if you've got an accurate table router + table saw but since you used a band-saw, i suspect your cuts aren't going to be the most exacting. If you're assembling the cabinets the "conventional way",(i.e side, top and rear panels first, front baffle last) this overhang/underhang is going to show up on your front baffle. That's normal, but bad. You'll need to do some edge sanding after or invest in a router with a flush trim bit (fastest easiest most brainless way). You can use the same bit to solve the "side panels not having straight edges" problem, with the help of some clamps and a straight edge.

If you want to assemble your cabinets with front baffles that are pre-painted or exactly pre-cut to size, the same way Troels Gravesen sometimes lacquers his perfectly cut front baffles before glueing, you're going to need a good table router to ensure width consistency. It is possible to get this accuracy with just a table saw but you'll need a really solid fence and a blade/technique that avoids kerf marks. Everything is just easier with a table router. Slim chances if you're measuring and cutting everything by hand or on a bandsaw.

Slightly unrelated but it's much easier said than done, to glue up the cabinet with perfectly 90 degree angles. I have an engineers square and 90 degree clamps for this purpose.

Best of Luck and Hope you have fun with this.
-cocoapuffs
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Old 11th May 2015, 08:08 AM   #6
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Sanding is likely to round the ends over. You're better off planing.
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Old 11th May 2015, 05:19 PM   #7
DearS is offline DearS  United States
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoapuffs View Post
No idea about the sanding sponge. Give it a whirl. Lots of people use sanding blocks but if you wanted to be really technical, those aren't perfectly flat either. The tolerances are reasonable on a block, no idea about the sponge.

I re-read your first post and I'm a bit confused. Is the issue the side panels not having straight edges where they meet the front baffle? Or is it the top and bottom panels that don't have 14 degree edges where the meet the front baffle? One problem is solved with a 15deg chamfer bit. The other with either a flush trim router bit and a long straight edge, a table router with a big cross cut sled (ideal since you can use the sled to run the piece against the fence and just trim off a tiny bit at a time) , or a big crosscut sled for your table saw and some steady hands.(not recommended)

Just some friendly words of advice as I gather you're not the most experienced carpenter since you're asking us this question. If you already know this stuff, just ignore it

Unless you've got a micrometer/vernier gauge, you're probably going to end up with some overhang on your pieces. This won't be the case if you've got an accurate table router + table saw but since you used a band-saw, i suspect your cuts aren't going to be the most exacting. If you're assembling the cabinets the "conventional way",(i.e side, top and rear panels first, front baffle last) this overhang/underhang is going to show up on your front baffle. That's normal, but bad. You'll need to do some edge sanding after or invest in a router with a flush trim bit (fastest easiest most brainless way). You can use the same bit to solve the "side panels not having straight edges" problem, with the help of some clamps and a straight edge.

If you want to assemble your cabinets with front baffles that are pre-painted or exactly pre-cut to size, the same way Troels Gravesen sometimes lacquers his perfectly cut front baffles before glueing, you're going to need a good table router to ensure width consistency. It is possible to get this accuracy with just a table saw but you'll need a really solid fence and a blade/technique that avoids kerf marks. Everything is just easier with a table router. Slim chances if you're measuring and cutting everything by hand or on a bandsaw.

Slightly unrelated but it's much easier said than done, to glue up the cabinet with perfectly 90 degree angles. I have an engineers square and 90 degree clamps for this purpose.

Best of Luck and Hope you have fun with this.
-cocoapuffs

I have issues both with the bottom/top 14 degrees and the sides. I was thinking of getting the router bit, I have a router. Issue is how am I going to get that old router bit off the darn thing. Its been a pain in the neck. Using the table saw has been a little annoying. I get pretty close but not perfect. It has a relatively crappy fence, IMO. I'm wondering if a miter saw is much better? I'm going to see how I can remove the router bit in my router. I can take off the nut around the bit, but even without the nut the bit is pressed in and stuck.

Thank you. I'll post some pics soon. I'm excited to get this working
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Old 11th May 2015, 10:17 PM   #8
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Oregon City, Oregon
For removing the "stuck" router bit, loosen the nut, and gently tap the bit, straight into the router. That's always worked for me.....

If I remember correctly, the sides of the Kairos are slanted so the front of the cabinet slopes back. If it's the angle that is not quite right, I doubt a little off is a problem. If it's the straightness of the cut, clamp both sides together, aligned by back and bottom, then apply sandpaper to a flat table-top. Sand until the entire surface is smooth. That's how I get two sides to have an equal slope. Repeat for the top.

A couple millimeters off isn't going to make a major difference.
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Old 12th May 2015, 04:14 AM   #9
DearS is offline DearS  United States
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by jplesset View Post
For removing the "stuck" router bit, loosen the nut, and gently tap the bit, straight into the router. That's always worked for me.....

If I remember correctly, the sides of the Kairos are slanted so the front of the cabinet slopes back. If it's the angle that is not quite right, I doubt a little off is a problem. If it's the straightness of the cut, clamp both sides together, aligned by back and bottom, then apply sandpaper to a flat table-top. Sand until the entire surface is smooth. That's how I get two sides to have an equal slope. Repeat for the top.

A couple millimeters off isn't going to make a major difference.

I'll give that a shot. Now that I'm done with school for this semester I can spend more time getting this to work.
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Old 14th May 2015, 02:08 PM   #10
DearS is offline DearS  United States
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by jplesset View Post
For removing the "stuck" router bit, loosen the nut, and gently tap the bit, straight into the router. That's always worked for me.....

.
I bit my router bit in with a the donut of MDF I had cut out and I bounced off.
Then I got a new router bit in and made a practice baffle. I got it on with my clamps to test the speakers. I think the speakers are still breaking in, they seem to get better as the more I listen. Not yet sounding better than my B&W CM9, but not worst perhaps. I know the box will need to be done well for them to really sound their best.

Question, does anyone know how I can remove all the glue I got on my box? specially on the front edges where the front baffle connects. The front baffle can't sit flush because of the glue.
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