Hi Everyone,
I am working on my first build, the Kairos kit from Meniscus. I spent a lot of times cutting the correct length 14 degree angles cuts for the front of the cabinet using a band saw and table saw. The sides (my friend) but for me with the hand saw are not flat when meeting with the front baffle. My question is how do I even out the edge to line up with the front battle nicely? Do I sand it down? How can I sand it down properly?
what about the top and bottom of the cabinet, how can I sand down how a millimeter or two evenly?
Also how do I know if I soldered the crossover connections well? I looped the leads around each other and soldered, I tested the speakers in a cardboard box and they make sounds ok
. I'll see if I can take a pick.
Thanks all!
I am working on my first build, the Kairos kit from Meniscus. I spent a lot of times cutting the correct length 14 degree angles cuts for the front of the cabinet using a band saw and table saw. The sides (my friend) but for me with the hand saw are not flat when meeting with the front baffle. My question is how do I even out the edge to line up with the front battle nicely? Do I sand it down? How can I sand it down properly?
what about the top and bottom of the cabinet, how can I sand down how a millimeter or two evenly?
Also how do I know if I soldered the crossover connections well? I looped the leads around each other and soldered, I tested the speakers in a cardboard box and they make sounds ok
. I'll see if I can take a pick. Thanks all!
Best bet is to use a 15 degree chamfer bit with a pilot. 1 degree off on a 3/4 inch piece amounts to a gap of <1mm. If its made of MDF, you could probably do some gentle sanding with a block. Accuracy won't be perfect but good enough for a PVA glue join-up. Have you already glue up the sidewalls? If you have, hand sanding with a block might be your only option...
No idea about the sanding sponge. Give it a whirl. Lots of people use sanding blocks but if you wanted to be really technical, those aren't perfectly flat either. The tolerances are reasonable on a block, no idea about the sponge.
I re-read your first post and I'm a bit confused. Is the issue the side panels not having straight edges where they meet the front baffle? Or is it the top and bottom panels that don't have 14 degree edges where the meet the front baffle? One problem is solved with a 15deg chamfer bit. The other with either a flush trim router bit and a long straight edge, a table router with a big cross cut sled (ideal since you can use the sled to run the piece against the fence and just trim off a tiny bit at a time) , or a big crosscut sled for your table saw and some steady hands.(not recommended)
Just some friendly words of advice as I gather you're not the most experienced carpenter since you're asking us this question. If you already know this stuff, just ignore it
Unless you've got a micrometer/vernier gauge, you're probably going to end up with some overhang on your pieces. This won't be the case if you've got an accurate table router + table saw but since you used a band-saw, i suspect your cuts aren't going to be the most exacting. If you're assembling the cabinets the "conventional way",(i.e side, top and rear panels first, front baffle last) this overhang/underhang is going to show up on your front baffle. That's normal, but bad. You'll need to do some edge sanding after or invest in a router with a flush trim bit (fastest easiest most brainless way). You can use the same bit to solve the "side panels not having straight edges" problem, with the help of some clamps and a straight edge.
If you want to assemble your cabinets with front baffles that are pre-painted or exactly pre-cut to size, the same way Troels Gravesen sometimes lacquers his perfectly cut front baffles before glueing, you're going to need a good table router to ensure width consistency. It is possible to get this accuracy with just a table saw but you'll need a really solid fence and a blade/technique that avoids kerf marks. Everything is just easier with a table router. Slim chances if you're measuring and cutting everything by hand or on a bandsaw.
Slightly unrelated but it's much easier said than done, to glue up the cabinet with perfectly 90 degree angles. I have an engineers square and 90 degree clamps for this purpose.
Best of Luck and Hope you have fun with this.
-cocoapuffs
I re-read your first post and I'm a bit confused. Is the issue the side panels not having straight edges where they meet the front baffle? Or is it the top and bottom panels that don't have 14 degree edges where the meet the front baffle? One problem is solved with a 15deg chamfer bit. The other with either a flush trim router bit and a long straight edge, a table router with a big cross cut sled (ideal since you can use the sled to run the piece against the fence and just trim off a tiny bit at a time) , or a big crosscut sled for your table saw and some steady hands.(not recommended)
Just some friendly words of advice as I gather you're not the most experienced carpenter since you're asking us this question. If you already know this stuff, just ignore it
Unless you've got a micrometer/vernier gauge, you're probably going to end up with some overhang on your pieces. This won't be the case if you've got an accurate table router + table saw but since you used a band-saw, i suspect your cuts aren't going to be the most exacting. If you're assembling the cabinets the "conventional way",(i.e side, top and rear panels first, front baffle last) this overhang/underhang is going to show up on your front baffle. That's normal, but bad. You'll need to do some edge sanding after or invest in a router with a flush trim bit (fastest easiest most brainless way). You can use the same bit to solve the "side panels not having straight edges" problem, with the help of some clamps and a straight edge.
If you want to assemble your cabinets with front baffles that are pre-painted or exactly pre-cut to size, the same way Troels Gravesen sometimes lacquers his perfectly cut front baffles before glueing, you're going to need a good table router to ensure width consistency. It is possible to get this accuracy with just a table saw but you'll need a really solid fence and a blade/technique that avoids kerf marks. Everything is just easier with a table router. Slim chances if you're measuring and cutting everything by hand or on a bandsaw.
Slightly unrelated but it's much easier said than done, to glue up the cabinet with perfectly 90 degree angles. I have an engineers square and 90 degree clamps for this purpose.
Best of Luck and Hope you have fun with this.
-cocoapuffs
No idea about the sanding sponge. Give it a whirl. Lots of people use sanding blocks but if you wanted to be really technical, those aren't perfectly flat either. The tolerances are reasonable on a block, no idea about the sponge.
I re-read your first post and I'm a bit confused. Is the issue the side panels not having straight edges where they meet the front baffle? Or is it the top and bottom panels that don't have 14 degree edges where the meet the front baffle? One problem is solved with a 15deg chamfer bit. The other with either a flush trim router bit and a long straight edge, a table router with a big cross cut sled (ideal since you can use the sled to run the piece against the fence and just trim off a tiny bit at a time) , or a big crosscut sled for your table saw and some steady hands.(not recommended)
Just some friendly words of advice as I gather you're not the most experienced carpenter since you're asking us this question. If you already know this stuff, just ignore it
Unless you've got a micrometer/vernier gauge, you're probably going to end up with some overhang on your pieces. This won't be the case if you've got an accurate table router + table saw but since you used a band-saw, i suspect your cuts aren't going to be the most exacting. If you're assembling the cabinets the "conventional way",(i.e side, top and rear panels first, front baffle last) this overhang/underhang is going to show up on your front baffle. That's normal, but bad. You'll need to do some edge sanding after or invest in a router with a flush trim bit (fastest easiest most brainless way). You can use the same bit to solve the "side panels not having straight edges" problem, with the help of some clamps and a straight edge.
If you want to assemble your cabinets with front baffles that are pre-painted or exactly pre-cut to size, the same way Troels Gravesen sometimes lacquers his perfectly cut front baffles before glueing, you're going to need a good table router to ensure width consistency. It is possible to get this accuracy with just a table saw but you'll need a really solid fence and a blade/technique that avoids kerf marks. Everything is just easier with a table router. Slim chances if you're measuring and cutting everything by hand or on a bandsaw.
Slightly unrelated but it's much easier said than done, to glue up the cabinet with perfectly 90 degree angles. I have an engineers square and 90 degree clamps for this purpose.
Best of Luck and Hope you have fun with this.
-cocoapuffs
I have issues both with the bottom/top 14 degrees and the sides. I was thinking of getting the router bit, I have a router. Issue is how am I going to get that old router bit off the darn thing. Its been a pain in the neck. Using the table saw has been a little annoying. I get pretty close but not perfect. It has a relatively crappy fence, IMO. I'm wondering if a miter saw is much better? I'm going to see how I can remove the router bit in my router. I can take off the nut around the bit, but even without the nut the bit is pressed in and stuck.
Thank you. I'll post some pics soon.
I'm excited to get this workingFor removing the "stuck" router bit, loosen the nut, and gently tap the bit, straight into the router. That's always worked for me.....
If I remember correctly, the sides of the Kairos are slanted so the front of the cabinet slopes back. If it's the angle that is not quite right, I doubt a little off is a problem. If it's the straightness of the cut, clamp both sides together, aligned by back and bottom, then apply sandpaper to a flat table-top. Sand until the entire surface is smooth. That's how I get two sides to have an equal slope. Repeat for the top.
A couple millimeters off isn't going to make a major difference.
If I remember correctly, the sides of the Kairos are slanted so the front of the cabinet slopes back. If it's the angle that is not quite right, I doubt a little off is a problem. If it's the straightness of the cut, clamp both sides together, aligned by back and bottom, then apply sandpaper to a flat table-top. Sand until the entire surface is smooth. That's how I get two sides to have an equal slope. Repeat for the top.
A couple millimeters off isn't going to make a major difference.
I'll give that a shot. Now that I'm done with school for this semester I can spend more time getting this to work.
I bit my router bit in with a the donut of MDF I had cut out and I bounced off.
Then I got a new router bit in and made a practice baffle. I got it on with my clamps to test the speakers. I think the speakers are still breaking in, they seem to get better as the more I listen. Not yet sounding better than my B&W CM9, but not worst perhaps. I know the box will need to be done well for them to really sound their best.
Question, does anyone know how I can remove all the glue I got on my box? specially on the front edges where the front baffle connects. The front baffle can't sit flush because of the glue.
It may be a while before I finish my real Kairos enclosures. Now they are on .5 cuft diysoundgroup enclosures and they are getting better. I but a piece of mdf under them to angle the square enclosure upward and it improved the sound as well. I'm liking them more and more, but I hope they can really really impress me when they are done. Not sure if they are better than the CM9 right now, but pretty good. What do you think about them?
You can heat up the dried glue to scrape it off. Heatgun works, maybe hair dryer will soften it enough to scrape easier.
DOn't use 60-40 solder it will crack overtime from the vibration. Get 10 feet of Cardas quad eutectic from ebay. It is excellent quality and so easy to use. To test solder joints you can apply mechanical stress like bending the joint or pulling on it. A good joint is very strong.
Ideally, you'd cut all the Kairo parts on a table saw. Cut one rectangular board in half on the 14 degree angle to get two identical angles for the baffle edges. Then fine tune the side depth dimension if necessary. Use a adjustable triangle to set your miter gage for the 14 degree angle. Bolt a strip of wood to the miter gage lengthen the front face of the miter gage to prevent the side pieces from twisting while you cut.
Angle the blade to 14 degrees to cut the top and bottom panel angles. Use the side piece to help set the blade angle.
On any table saw it is very easy to set the fence parallel to the blade. Check the manual. I use a piece of plywood stuck into a table slot, then push the loosened fence against it, then tighten. I put a piece of thin paper at the far end between the fence and the slot plywood to angle the fence out by a hair. This prevents the blade burning the wood as it passes through after the cut.
Don't worry about making mistakes. Wood is cheap. Try it a few times until you get it right. Or if you have some gaps from a rough cut, just glue it and clamp it together. After it dries fill the gaps with caulk on the inside, and with wood putty on the outside. Sand it smooth with your sanding block for painting. Nobody will ever know and the sound will be just as good. You want to avoid leaks at all cost, hence the caulk, but the angles and exact dimensions are not life or death. It is a forgiving design.
If you have a router you can strategically cut some pieces a little oversize by 1/16" then trim off the excess flush with the box after gluing. I usually cut the rear panel to correct size, then the top and bottom are long to overlap the rear panel, and the sides overlap the top rear and bottom. Then after gluing, flush trim the overhang with router trim bit. This cuts off the extra glue too.
You can skip the reflex port on the Kairos boxes, use them sealed. Jeff Bagby recommends sealed and it is awesome that way. They have a lot of baffle step correction so the bass is very good even without a port. Adjust the distance to the wall behind them to boost or cut the bass to your taste. Don't skip the interior box bracing. There are good opportunities for upgrading the basic kit crossover parts when your ready for even more from Kairos.
DOn't use 60-40 solder it will crack overtime from the vibration. Get 10 feet of Cardas quad eutectic from ebay. It is excellent quality and so easy to use. To test solder joints you can apply mechanical stress like bending the joint or pulling on it. A good joint is very strong.
Ideally, you'd cut all the Kairo parts on a table saw. Cut one rectangular board in half on the 14 degree angle to get two identical angles for the baffle edges. Then fine tune the side depth dimension if necessary. Use a adjustable triangle to set your miter gage for the 14 degree angle. Bolt a strip of wood to the miter gage lengthen the front face of the miter gage to prevent the side pieces from twisting while you cut.
Angle the blade to 14 degrees to cut the top and bottom panel angles. Use the side piece to help set the blade angle.
On any table saw it is very easy to set the fence parallel to the blade. Check the manual. I use a piece of plywood stuck into a table slot, then push the loosened fence against it, then tighten. I put a piece of thin paper at the far end between the fence and the slot plywood to angle the fence out by a hair. This prevents the blade burning the wood as it passes through after the cut.
Don't worry about making mistakes. Wood is cheap. Try it a few times until you get it right. Or if you have some gaps from a rough cut, just glue it and clamp it together. After it dries fill the gaps with caulk on the inside, and with wood putty on the outside. Sand it smooth with your sanding block for painting. Nobody will ever know and the sound will be just as good. You want to avoid leaks at all cost, hence the caulk, but the angles and exact dimensions are not life or death. It is a forgiving design.
If you have a router you can strategically cut some pieces a little oversize by 1/16" then trim off the excess flush with the box after gluing. I usually cut the rear panel to correct size, then the top and bottom are long to overlap the rear panel, and the sides overlap the top rear and bottom. Then after gluing, flush trim the overhang with router trim bit. This cuts off the extra glue too.
You can skip the reflex port on the Kairos boxes, use them sealed. Jeff Bagby recommends sealed and it is awesome that way. They have a lot of baffle step correction so the bass is very good even without a port. Adjust the distance to the wall behind them to boost or cut the bass to your taste. Don't skip the interior box bracing. There are good opportunities for upgrading the basic kit crossover parts when your ready for even more from Kairos.
I agree that a 3 way can beat a 2 way of equal quality. I expect the satori drivers to be better than the CM9 drivers, and on a similar level to the B&W 800 drivers. Although the CM9 enclosure is much better than the one I have constructed. My CM9 is also not in an ideal location (next to wall and huge TV stand) and powered by a mid level receiver.
Still the Kef LS50 I heard (with better placement) and with a Rega Bryo-R Amp and good CD player sounded better than the CM9s and that is a small 2-way. I want the Kairos to surpass the LS50 and do so by a clear margin! I ordered an emotiva amp to have something I hope is as good as a Rega Bryo-R amp, and I'll look to order a good DAC.
I have not been too impressed by the $3000 B&W CM9, but I know my placement and equipment is partly responsible for that. The LS50 and 800 Series I heard impressed me, and I want to land somewhere in between those two or better!
Thank you, I'm going to go over this slowly and see if I can plan this project out. I already put the crossovers together with affordable solder, but I'll look into getting something better. Also I'm getting to better understand and use a router, so I wont cut 10+ boards to get the perfect size
.The side pieces and interior braces are what I'm having trouble with now. Working to wrap my head around cutting the 14 degree angle for the 2 sides. I may need to get a better fence and measuring equipment. I have not used a miter saw, but I can borrow one, I was thinking that was a good way to cut the side pieces.
Also I used my soldering gun to heat up the glue and make it pliable. It worked to some degree but I don't want to damage the mdf too much. Its a lot more flat now though.
What kind of caulk should I u
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