Marshall:Let me first of all say that I'm beginning increasingly to think that dome tweeters might not be the best way of doing things. I'm beginning to think more and more that, should we not be looking at cone rather than dome tweeters?
He also says couple of times flat lookin respons can be very bad
http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/567/index.html
The Scan is in a different league than the TC9,but overpriced IMO. The Viston is rare on this side of the pond
A low XO (you are crossing higher than we have) pushes the CO low enuff that the C-C can be less than a 1/4 wavelength at XO point.
dave
Bingo!
I am designing a system now that uses a BMR as the tweeter.
Some of the BMRs that I have seen have a terrible frequency anomaly around 2kHz. This 3" model from Tectonic Elements seems well behaved:
Tectonic Elements TEBM46C20N-4B BMR 3" Full Range Speaker 4 Ohm
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That's often true of most subjective testing in this "area". In fact, I've seen worse controls in place on published papers with a smaller sampling.
It doesn't mean that a logical conclusion can't be made though, but what is always in question is how applicable any giving conclusion will be to another individual (..or even the same individual in the sample at a later time - with even the same conditions). I would say however that variance was high for this test.
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One thing to keep in mind about the Subjective Blind test setup is that even with all the different things in the chain that P10 complains about, all those things are in this case, *Identical* with the only variable being the driver (and level adjustment to balance bass with fullrange). Same enclosure, same bass sub unit, same amp, same MiniDSP, same wires, same source, same mic, same processing procedure, same room, same position of speaker and mic in the room, same operator, same songs, etc. Therefore, if you hear a difference - it has to come from the intrinsic property of the driver. Because... *All* extrinsic things are unchanged.
No. The user's "end" is highly variable.
Additionally there is the variability of the driver as it reacts to the cabinet and the surrounding space.
-the later is almost always going to be a problem however.
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Same user's end when listening and interaction with room is the same as position is the same. We are talking low freq effects for room modes but since high passed as top in a FAST most effects of room will be below 300Hz. Unless user uses different means to listen to different tracks but that defeats the point of comparing. The whole argument that there is variability on the listener's end is moot. The headphones, speakers, amps, etc the user uses all have their transfer function. As long as it is the same during the comparison, then it is part of the fixed side of the equation. One can keep going and say we all have different ears and differences in how we perceive sound. Does that mean that when we listen two two different things we can't come to a judgement because our ears and hearing do not have a flat response from 20Hz to 20kHz?
I think what I attempted to do may have a similar mathematical construct in proofs: take two things and change one and only one thing as the input to the function f(x,t,z,...)=arbitrary function of infinite variables - if only one variable is changed, the output change must have been the result of the change in the variable.
Cabinet had been shown to be almost same as open baffle in response. The Nautaloss rear chamber was chosen specifically to be low impact on the coloration.
I think what I attempted to do may have a similar mathematical construct in proofs: take two things and change one and only one thing as the input to the function f(x,t,z,...)=arbitrary function of infinite variables - if only one variable is changed, the output change must have been the result of the change in the variable.
Cabinet had been shown to be almost same as open baffle in response. The Nautaloss rear chamber was chosen specifically to be low impact on the coloration.
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And each removing information from the reproduction… in particular the small stuff, the detail, the stuff 20-40 dB down that us the difference between good & great. The whole thing is homogenized. Or like blended Scotch…
dave
It might be in the running in the under $30 category. Female vocals sound like there coming out of a small bathroom, and the top end is tizzy and unnatural.
jeff
Whatever guys. Go ahead and keep bashing the $12 driver but let's see how it stacks up against the big (and small) boys on the next round in a blind test.
FF105WK, A7.3, 10F/8424, TG9FD, W4-1320SB, Peerless 830869, SB65WBAC25-4, maybe B80.
The comment about female vocals sound like they are coming from a small bathroom has to do with your own room acoustics. The TC9FD is known for its exceptionally smooth, clear, low distortion, and detailed mid range where vocals are located.
Here is a sound clip of a female vocal with the TC9FD in a short TL and FAST.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/full-range/460419d1421757578-fast-tl-dagger-fast-clip-rp-01.zip
FF105WK, A7.3, 10F/8424, TG9FD, W4-1320SB, Peerless 830869, SB65WBAC25-4, maybe B80.
The comment about female vocals sound like they are coming from a small bathroom has to do with your own room acoustics. The TC9FD is known for its exceptionally smooth, clear, low distortion, and detailed mid range where vocals are located.
Here is a sound clip of a female vocal with the TC9FD in a short TL and FAST.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/full-range/460419d1421757578-fast-tl-dagger-fast-clip-rp-01.zip
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Thank you all for your responses. The plan is simply for a passive crossover in the 600-700 Hz region. Possibly first order to start with. I wanted the variable bsc (if that is what I achieve) so that I do not have to guess the amount required.
The BMR route looks the most interesting to me, and one I would not have thought of. I cannot find a source for Tectonic Elements in this country. Has anyone tried shipping from Parts Express to England? There are some CSS BMRs available here, that I might end up going for
The BMR route looks the most interesting to me, and one I would not have thought of. I cannot find a source for Tectonic Elements in this country. Has anyone tried shipping from Parts Express to England? There are some CSS BMRs available here, that I might end up going for
Hi,
Its a sad day when such nonsense is used to bolster
what is basically an opinion against any argument.
rgds, sreten.
Not at all. The other speakers listened to suffered none of that. The VIFA isn't bad, it is just not near up to the level of cheerleading coming from you.
And an inability to reproduce low-level detail.It has poor DDR.
No pointin listening to you low budget measure mic...
dave
So. Many things in audio are yet to be measurable.
And as we speak, Pano is working on a way to measure this.
Hard to believe that you would put any credibility into XRK's effort.
dave
There's no bashing going on. It's a cheap driver that sounds OK. It's certainly not the giant killer you make it out to be.
jeff
I can't agree with the bathroom thing in any use I've put them to, but the top end can be annoying, for sure. Used slightly off axis and with the right crossover they calm down remarkably. They can't handle of lot of power, but that's true of most drivers this size.
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