Anyone build Diysoundgroup speakers?

[na]

Hi all.

Is there anyone who has build Diysoundgroup speakers like Fusion-12, Fusion-15? Have you compared those to other speakers?
I would like to hear some thoughts about how they sound, i would use them for 2ch music listening.
The new Cinema-10 Max looks good, but it goes about 55z, so i guess i would build it as a whole tower to make those few extra hz..No room for subwoofer.
Also the coming Jeff Bagby design, which i i guess is called Maximus-12, 3-way looks very promising.

Can someone share some thoughts about those?
I am attempted to order some, but i want to be sure before buying. Shipping+customs in Europe is lot of (and almost as much in € )

Thanks!
na

 

[multitask]

i guess DIYSG are fine speakers considering price and parts used. but also hyped as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

if you want good midrange you won`t get that from a 10-15" eminence. they even use a 12" mid in one of their 3-way speakers.
if you question it on their advertisement site avsforum, they will quickly jump on you flashing polar plots etc, because thats apparantly the only thing that matters.

 

[wushuliu]

i guess DIYSG are fine speakers considering price and parts used. but also hyped as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

if you want good midrange you won`t get that from a 10-15" eminence. they even use a 12" mid in one of their 3-way speakers.
if you question it on their advertisement site avsforum, they will quickly jump on you flashing polar plots etc, because thats apparantly the only thing that matters.

Yeah, I respect the work they've done and they have well-respected gurus like Jeff B. doing some of the designs but it was *very* hard for me to find any substantive reviews on the designs. The main forum over at AVS last I checked was always about what to design *next* or what new drivers were on the way.

At some point I'd like to build a set for home theater.

Jeff B. has a post where he discusses the differences between his typical designs and his DIYSG design; IIRC he basically said yeah you get the dynamics and spl but not the same level of midrange detail. I believe he was referring to his most expensive design there at the time.

They do love flashing the polar plots.

Basically it's an objectivist hangout IMO where there's no real need to talk about subjective performance as long as the measurements are good. That's been my impression anyway.

 

[na]

Thanks for opinions, i would like to hear those more.

Lets try to make this discussion to be as objective as possible, but of course opinions that are based on real experience, even that they are bit harsh, is ok.

I have build mainly smaller 2-ways.
I am familiar with Troels, Tony Gee, Hifitalo, Gr-research, Strassacker + some other diy designs. I have Pispeakers new horns waiting for the build, but i need to recone my Jbl 2226H:s first, and that is expensive...
But yes, i think it all comes to driver engineering, and motor+cone design. Even that Jbl 2226H is 15", it is claimed to have good midrange. But Jbl motor is patented. I know many of the Scan-speak and Seas drivers are good , but so are exc. Jbl, Phl, Oberton, B&C, 18sound and they are so called "Pro" drivers. So i think you can not say that Pro drivers are allways bad, and just made for SPL. Many times you can, but not always.

Smaller/lighter cones move quicker off course, but where is the line when the cone is too heavy? They need to move air after all?

Br,
na

 

[picowallspeaker]

No, air don't move.

 

[na]

Thank you picowallspeaker! You are very correct.
Air don't move, it is the energy that moves and it uses air and airs different gases to move on like wave. Like soundwave

 

[na]

I like the MTM idea in the Cinema-10. What do you think about the Eminence Alpha:s performance?
Maximus-12 i believe uses B&C midwoofer.
Has anyone heard the Denovo compression drivers? Are they like B&C DE250?

Well, i am just trying to convince myself to build some BIG speakers Help me out here, any recommendation for bigger speaker design that works good in acoustically poor room?

 

[18Hurts]

You have to remember what the DIY SG speakers are for..

Reference levels of 105dB at a distance of 12 feet (3.6 meters) with the traditional 100 watts available from a AV receiver. The minimum you need is a speaker at 96dB 1w/1m for the LCR speakers and they do that easily. Very few speakers are available that have that level of output with 100 watts of power--PA speakers and Klipsch do.

Great speakers to meet those specifications for reference home theater--but not the be all end all of speakers if you listen to lower levels of output. It is great that they are available and have the durability, output and quality to last for many years. In reality, home theater speakers are PA speakers since they have to deal with really high peak SPL levels during action/war scenes.

 

[dudaindc]

You have to remember what the DIY SG speakers are for..

Reference levels of 105dB at a distance of 12 feet (3.6 meters) with the traditional 100 watts available from a AV receiver. The minimum you need is a speaker at 96dB 1w/1m for the LCR speakers and they do that easily. Very few speakers are available that have that level of output with 100 watts of power--PA speakers and Klipsch do.

Great speakers to meet those specifications for reference home theater--but not the be all end all of speakers if you listen to lower levels of output. It is great that they are available and have the durability, output and quality to last for many years. In reality, home theater speakers are PA speakers since they have to deal with really high peak SPL levels during action/war scenes.

Thanks for putting things in the correct perspective.

 

[Octavia]

I think the DIY Soundgroup is offering a great service. There are many options and not all of them are for home theater only or PA use. They have Jeff Bagby's Continuum offering and plenty of others if you bother to look through all of the site.

 

[picowallspeaker]

The new Cinema-10 Max looks good, but it goes about 55z, so i guess i would build it as a whole tower to make those few extra hz..

Luxury version
Max 1 - Unison Research - Official Website

 

[Richidoo]

I experimented with SEOS/Econowave speakers a couple years ago. I used very high quality drivers and crossover parts, even active XO, but was never able to get the kind of refinement I need for classical music listening. I'm sure Bagby's versions will define the limit of what's possible from the SEOS concept, but imo it won't approach the refinement and tone quality of his Kairos design.

I heard the new JBL LSR305 Studio Monitors last weekend, they are impressive! I would get a pair of the bigger JBL LSR308s before I built another DIY econowave type speaker again. The JBLs sound awesome, they are active, with a new and weird looking JBL CD horn based on their master reference monitor system, excellent tone quality, good WAF, high SPL, excellent imaging effects. $450/pair delivered. DIYSG designs can't touch that.

 

[na]

The Unison-Research speakers horn looks very much 18sound:s horn, here is Finnish Diy design that also uses 18sound:s drivers:

Kaiutinrakennusohje - Nitrosäiliö - 15-tuumainen hifi-PA-kaiutin | AudioVideo.fi

The JBL M2:s horn looks very interesting indeed. It is nice to see that they have used that technology in their cheaper speakers.
It looks like they use textile tweeter in that horn...hmm...
-Who makes the first glassfiber / wood copy ?

 

[na]

...and here is the new crossover version for the "Nitrosäiliö" design:Nitrosäiliö-kaiutinrakennusohjeen jakosuodinpäivitys ja ulkoasumuutos - Mikkelin AMK, muotoilun koulutusohjelma | AudioVideo.fi

 

[picowallspeaker]

The Unison-Research speakers horn looks very much 18sound:s horn

LTH142 having 1.5 " throat

 

[bwaslo]

There IS reason for a 12 inch midrange, BTW. The idea is to keep the off-axis, or even slightly-off-axis response from having an ugly bump because of changing radiation pattern between tweeter and midrange. With a 90 degree waveguide (read "horn used for something other than efficiency") that controls directivity down to ~1kHz, a midrange that is 12 inches or so wide is needed to get a smooth match at the crossover frequency. A smaller midrange would radiate over a wider angle.

If you are trying to get widest radiation angles possible, you'd want tiniest possible drivers. But all the off-axis sound, and it's bumps and dips, will all come back to you in the room, it's not just the on-axis response that matters (just point a speaker away from you for a test and notice how little the sound level drops off!)

 

[badman]

It's not that the core concept is flawed- just that it takes a very good woofer indeed to be a true 15" midwoof. I use the BD Designs BD15, which is happy out to 5k- but I only run it to 1200.

 

[_henry_]

something similar

 

[na]

(To bwaslo)
Yes, i have read that somewhere, thanks for explaining that. So in 90 degree waveguide/horn the midwoofer should be 12" or bigger? The 12" would be optimal?
Tannoy Kingdom royal uses 12" for midrange, and i have read that it is excellent speaker, well the 15" woofer is maybe helping a little

(to henry)
That looks great! E-JMLC horns? What kind of driver?

Has anyone builded the Strassacker/Lautsprechershop Eggo or Eggo2?
Strassacker: Lautsprecher - Lautsprecherchassis: Hochtöner, Mitteltöner, Tieftöner, Koaxiallautsprecher, Subwoofer

Can someone explain the philosopy behind that JBL waveguide (M2) shape? What do they gain with those "bumps" in the waveguides throat?

 

[na]

I have had the Lautsprechershop:s Jurua design under development for over 2 years now...so little time, so many projects

But i will take some pics and show them here someday.
(recommended designs are at the top of the Strassacker/Lautsprechershop page)