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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Sealed enclosures for my AE TD12s & AE TD6m
Sealed enclosures for my AE TD12s & AE TD6m
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Old 30th January 2015, 03:53 PM   #11
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
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Smile port or passive radiator

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Originally Posted by Cousin Billy View Post
I'm kind of hoping you experiment and report back.

I will start my build with a slot port. According to John at AE, this yields better results than round ports.

As I said previously, I too am a sealed enclosure listener. If my slot port doesn't work, dual passive radiators either side of the enclosure will be my next step.

If you go to Acoustic Elegance' website, they have a 'faq' on passive radiators. A common observation is that passive radiators 'sound' closer to a sealed enclosure alignment, I think.
Yes, I have talked to John and he really doesn't think that I will need Passive R. to get down to 40hz. He said just use the minidsp 4x10HD and EQ. I just trying to get as close as possible to 40hz so that less EQ is needed which in turn means more xmax. Another option is to do a transmission line like PMC, ATC and some of the other brands that are known for the best bass in the industry use. I have heard that it is harded to build a TL. Do you have any experience with TL.
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Old 30th January 2015, 10:37 PM   #12
45 is offline 45  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeller View Post
Yes, I have talked to John and he really doesn't think that I will need Passive R. to get down to 40hz. He said just use the minidsp 4x10HD and EQ. I just trying to get as close as possible to 40hz so that less EQ is needed which in turn means more xmax. Another option is to do a transmission line like PMC, ATC and some of the other brands that are known for the best bass in the industry use. I have heard that it is harded to build a TL. Do you have any experience with TL.
As you were talking about the Apollo up-grade you might ask if they take back your TD12's for a pair of LO12 that has the same 93 dB efficiency.
If your target is F3 as close as possible to 40Hz using a sealed box, with your amps, the LO12 is clearly a better choice. However efficiency and low F3 mean big box. With the LO12 you would need some 150 liters to get F3 = 45Hz.

If you want a much smaller box you have to give up some efficiency. I can see there is the SBP series which is specifically designed for sealed box. At the end of the day 88 dB/1W is not bad at all having hundreds of watts and the SBP12 would work with "only" 90 liters. You would get F3 = 35 Hz. With 14 mm peak linear excursion you can drive it to thunderous levels anyway.

Last edited by 45; 30th January 2015 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 31st January 2015, 02:57 AM   #13
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Fkeller, Consider a clone of the Pass Labs SR-2 or Avalon with ~3cuft for the TD12S supporting both sealed and ported options.
------why----
If you have a modest volume room, a sealed box TD12S with MiniDSP bass extension plus room equalization will produce the best total listening experience, at the cost of ~ 300watts into the TD12S for loud deep bass(10x power boost at 30Hz).

If you have a large room, you will need a subwoofer(s) for under 60Hz, so put the TD12S in a sealed box and transfer the 60Hz sub-bass duty when you have a subwoofer.

If you have a medium size room, a ported TD12S is simple 3-way satisfaction.

A large volume TL design makes sense only if you never plan to equalize for deep bass or room modes, or never plan to add a subwoofer
---------
Cabinet design with MiniDSP:
1) MiniDSP handles time alignment delays.
2) Cabinet shape can focus on edge diffraction and C-to-C lobe issues.
...large radius edges(1.5" router or 3" MDF rounds)
...multi-angle beveled edges (Avalon or Pass Labs)
...sphere for TM (B&W)
3) Butt tweeter to midrange. Trim T face plate if possible
...MiniDSP cannot help C-to-C lobe issues
4) MiniDSP provides strong support for LR4 and Butterworth
...Symmetrical acoustic LR4 is best first experiment
5) Single TMW cabinet allows woofer to use volume around TD6M midrange box. Smaller total size.
6) For the freq range of the TD12S, a round port with inside and outside radius is the best DIY choice.
...several supporting tech papers. slot ports more common with subwoofers and "area restricted" front baffles.
...For the cost of two large passive radiators for the TD12s, you can buy a great 15" or 18" woofer.

The SR-2 design from Pass Labs and a flat baffle Avalon style have modest construction complexity and popular style.
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Old 31st January 2015, 04:16 AM   #14
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Simple front baffle screw-in option for ported vs. different volume sealed alignments. A light material like styrofoam could be used to adjust the internal sealed volume for Qtc tuning options.

Review earlier post with 10X bass power requirement difference between equalized sealed vs. ported. You never know when you might want to take this speaker off of the MiniDSP and use a passive Xover for single amp operation. Kids go to college. You might get rich and put these in the bedroom. TD6M + TD12S = lifetime $peaker.
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File Type: jpg ported sealed screw-in baffle.jpg (67.1 KB, 413 views)
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Old 1st February 2015, 02:28 AM   #15
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
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Great idea. Thanks I will consider this. Keep the ideas coming great job gurus.
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Old 2nd February 2015, 03:15 PM   #16
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
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It's a new month. I hope all the family made it to see Feb. 2015'. Ok lets see who can come up with the best cabinet design for this project. Let's find out who the Real Guru of Guru's is. Good luck. Show your knowledge & skills!
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Old 5th February 2015, 12:05 AM   #17
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
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Default enclosure Help

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Originally Posted by Fkeller View Post
It's a new month
. I hope all the family made it to see Feb. 2015'. Ok lets see who can come up with the best cabinet design for this project. Let's find out who the Real Guru of Guru's is. Good luck. Show your knowledge & skills!
Lets go fellas I need some help with enclosure design.
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Old 5th February 2015, 02:15 PM   #18
Cousin Billy is offline Cousin Billy  Canada
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A great place to start is Troels Gravesen' website. More builds than you can read.
Start here SEAS_NEXT4 . The dual woofers can be replaced by your single TD12. He say's this is one of his best builds.
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Old 5th February 2015, 03:41 PM   #19
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
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Default enclosure plans

Great suggestion. Thanks Now this is what im talking about. Now were headed in the right direction. Keep it coming gurus.
I like this plan. Chime in folks.
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Old 5th February 2015, 06:47 PM   #20
Josephjcole is offline Josephjcole  United States
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People have already provided you with suggested cabinet sizes as well as possible shapes. I think your best bet if you want more help might be to draw up possible enclosures and ask for critiques... be sure and consider bracing when calculating cabinet volumes.
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