Cerwin Vega T/S specs - diyAudio
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Old 24th January 2004, 03:37 AM   #1
gjeff80 is offline gjeff80  United States
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Default Cerwin Vega T/S specs

Hi, I was wondering, I have some CV 189E woofers, and I know they don't have T/S specs for them, I'm having them reconed, and I've been told by CV that they use the CV 189ES kit for this speaker, so I was wondering if anyone has any T/S specs for the 189ES, I'm trying to figure these specs fo I know what size port I need to put in my cabinet.

Thanks
Glenn
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Old 19th March 2005, 06:45 PM   #2
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The 189es is out of an earthquake and requires no port and needs to be used in an 1.5 cubic foot folded horn enclousure to get the floor shaking lows(down to 30Hz) from them however I have used them in a front loaded box of the same cubic feet with fairly good results. You don't get as low( about 50 to 60 Hz) but for most applications this is more than enough. The bos must be sealed no port. This is a very tight enclousure and you should take into account the room the speaker itself takes up in the cabinet. There is also a plus minus of about 10% on the cabinet size. I hope this helps
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Old 20th March 2005, 11:54 PM   #3
gjeff80 is offline gjeff80  United States
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Default T/S Specs

I ended up using the software to determine what I thought was the T/S specs, and it ended up recommending a port for this cabinet. So I put them in a folded horn cabinet and they sounded nice. I know they originally came out of the earthquake box, which I still have, but I have since loaded those cabinets with JBL 2240's and I put these Cerwin Vega's in the JBL 18 folden horn W-Bin box. I ported all the cabs as from what I found using the software it gave you a lower response?

-Glenn
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Old 21st March 2005, 09:18 AM   #4
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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All Cerwin Vega 18's were designed for horn loading.

If you need to TS, let me know, and, I'll dig them up.


Rock On !
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Old 21st March 2005, 12:35 PM   #5
gjeff80 is offline gjeff80  United States
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Default T/S spec

Do you have the T/S spec for a Cerwin Vega - 189E? Back when I was building the cabinet a year ago, Cerwin Vega told me that they didn't have any on that woofer, and I had checked online and no one seemed to have any, so I followed the instructions on a site to determine the T/S specs, and then plugged them into one of the box building software packages and decided to go w/ a ported W-Bin, I think I tuned the ports to 40 Hz on all the cabinets.
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Old 21st March 2005, 12:52 PM   #6
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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Yeah Dude. I got the TS on that speaker.

Cerwin Vega never have anything they don't make anymore.

If you can hold off until tomorrow, I will send it to you. You
said you got them in W Bins right? Thats sounds right. Porting
sounds kinda low though. You got them in the original Cerwin
Vega W Bins, or, JBL's version? The Cerwin Vega versions was
not ported. You could port them, but, if they are too low, your
not gaining any efficency oppose keeping them sealed.

How many of those suckers you got?

Rock On!
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Old 21st March 2005, 02:34 PM   #7
gjeff80 is offline gjeff80  United States
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Default T/S Specs

Omni Flex,

Thanks for all your info, I've include a picture of my cabinets I have now so you can get a visual as to what I'm talking about, and since you know more about this than I do, you can tell me if there is anything you'd recommend doing differently.

ftp://members.aol.com/gjeff80/all.jpg




I have the system setup as a 4 way FOH system.

Highs - either 2.5 or 5k and up (it's been a while since I checked the crossover)

Mids - 500Hz - 2.5 or 5k

Low Mids - 100Hz - 500Hz

Subs - 100Hz and below.

Ok, I'm going to start from the top of the stacks coming down with them.

For the highs I have 2 horns on each side, one is a 1 inch Coral Driver, and then I have a 2 inch 2445 JBL driver in the other set.

The next cabinet is the mid cabinet, this cabinet used to be the altec lansings A6 voice of the theaters cabinet, but last year when I was doing my cabinet projects I decided to cut the bottom off and seal it up to make it smaller and more movable. The drivers in these cabinets are JBL E-130's.

The first W-Bin under the Mid cabinet is the Low-Mid cabinet, it is a 15 inch design W-Bin, I believe the cabinet design was an eminence design. Both this box, and the one next to it (all the w-bin's with 4 2 inch PVC ports in them) are loaded with JBL 2226H drivers. One of them are used as the low mid cabinet. I decided to port these after looking at JBL's recommend enclosure for these woofers which I think was 4 Cubic Feet, these W-Bin's only have about 2.5 Cubic Feet of internal volume so I figured a vented chamber would be beneficial. Plus I actually had a problem of tearing the outer edge of the woofer which I believe was due to the restricted back pressure.

Now on to the woofer...

Now the other 6 W-Bins (the 2 sets of 18's and one set of the 2226's) are used for the sub's. I've never used all 6 of them yet, as most of the clubs we go to I leave the 4 W-Bin's in the center of the photo in the trailer.

Here is how the story played out with the 18 inch woofers.

Years ago, a friend gave us the Cerwin Vega Earth Quake boxes, with the CV 189E's in them. They were 4 feet x 4 feet x 20 inches. Well they were blown, and we got a good deal on some JBL 2240's at the time, so we loaded them in the cabinets and used them while those cabinets in a fixed club install with their original sealed design.

Well, when it came time to start moving these cabinets, they would not fit down some stairs being 4 feet x 4 feet, so we cut a foot off the front of it, making it only 3 feet deep.

Up until last year I continued to leave that W-Bin sealed, until a friend of mine gave me one of the JBL W-Bin boxes and I saw the ported design. Having the Cerwin Vega 189E's already I decied to build another JBL K141 W-Bin box, I dug up the plans from JBL and built another one to a T of the original design. Then it came time to determine how to port the chamber, and since I had the CV 189E's I figured I would recone them and use those.

Well I couldn't find the T/S specs for the 189E, so like I said I measured them out, and plugged them into the winISD program, and after looking at different graphs, I fould 40Hz would be a good tuning frequency for all of the W-Bins, so that is what I decided to tune all the W-Bin cabinets to based on plugging in the volume of the chamber to winISD and the T/S specs of the respective woofer.

I know the low-mid cabinet doesn't benefit from the port, but I figured I'd tune it the same so in the event I ever used it as a sub woofer.

So that is where I am at today, as you can see I have all the ports installed based on what WinISD told me to do for the lenghts, I feel I got pretty good T/S specs based on following the insturctions on the website. I was in a bind because JBL had all the T/S specs for their woofers, but Cerwin Vega couldn't provide me with anything on the 189E as it was so old, so I tried my best to determine them, and I think I came up pretty close. This is what I ended up plugging into the WinISD program as a custom driver, which I then used to find out what lenght ports I needed.

[Main]
Name=Cerwin Vega 189E
EnteredBy=Administrator
Comment=
Date=2/1/2004
[Parameters]
Z=0
Fs=37
Pe=400
SPL=0
Re=4.65
Le=0
BL=0
Xmax=0
Cms=0
Qms=1.25
Qes=0.37
Qts=0.28
Rms=0
Mms=0
Sd=0
Vas=165
Dia=0.457200914401829
DualVC=0
Type=0


What are your thoughts? I know the W-Bin cabinets are pretty much obsolute with the JBL SRX dual 18 cabinets, no one really used old cabinets like these anymore, but I don't have the money to buy all new cabinets, and they still work fine. Maybe a little big, but they server their purpose ..


Thanks for all your help omniflex!
ftp://members.aol.com/gjeff80/all.jpg
[IMG]ftp://members.aol.com/gjeff80/all.jpg[/IMG]
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Old 22nd March 2005, 02:59 AM   #8
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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Default Re: T/S Specs

Quote:
Originally posted by gjeff80
Omni Flex,

Thanks for all your info, I've include a picture of my cabinets I have now so you can get a visual as to what I'm talking about, and since you know more about this than I do, you can tell me if there is anything you'd recommend doing differently.

ftp://members.aol.com/gjeff80/all.jpg
I Do?

I Can?


Lets see what we can do



Quote:
I have the system setup as a 4 way FOH system.

Highs - either 2.5 or 5k and up (it's been a while since I checked the crossover)

Mids - 500Hz - 2.5 or 5k

Low Mids - 100Hz - 500Hz

Subs - 100Hz and below.

Ok, I'm going to start from the top of the stacks coming down with them.

For the highs I have 2 horns on each side, one is a 1 inch Coral Driver, and then I have a 2 inch 2445 JBL driver in the other set.

The next cabinet is the mid cabinet, this cabinet used to be the altec lansings A6 voice of the theaters cabinet, but last year when I was doing my cabinet projects I decided to cut the bottom off and seal it up to make it smaller and more movable. The drivers in these cabinets are JBL E-130's.
If you cut the bottom, off, and, made a port, you would be
able to get down to 100 Hertz. Thats a 15 inch driver, it can
go down to 100 Hertz. 500 Hertz are for tens, not fifteens.
A Fifteens starting point is 500 - 1Khz, not ending.

In addition the box is big enough to get you down to around
150 Hertz. With the port, you would see 100.

Quote:
The first W-Bin under the Mid cabinet is the Low-Mid cabinet, it is a 15 inch design W-Bin, I believe the cabinet design was an eminence design. Both this box, and the one next to it (all the w-bin's with 4 2 inch PVC ports in them) are loaded with JBL 2226H drivers. One of them are used as the low mid cabinet. I decided to port these after looking at JBL's recommend enclosure for these woofers which I think was 4 Cubic Feet, these W-Bin's only have about 2.5 Cubic Feet of internal volume so I figured a vented chamber would be beneficial. Plus I actually had a problem of tearing the outer edge of the woofer which I believe was due to the restricted back pressure.
Umm........

I don't know dude. Low Mids is usually 400 - 100 Hz. If your
ripping up the woofers, then something is wrong.

Cone movement is minimal to none at these frequencies. Also,
how are you getting vocals clearly, out of a W Bin?

Quote:
Now on to the woofer...

Now the other 6 W-Bins (the 2 sets of 18's and one set of the 2226's) are used for the sub's. I've never used all 6 of them yet, as most of the clubs we go to I leave the 4 W-Bin's in the center of the photo in the trailer.

Here is how the story played out with the 18 inch woofers.

Years ago, a friend gave us the Cerwin Vega Earth Quake boxes, with the CV 189E's in them. They were 4 feet x 4 feet x 20 inches. Well they were blown, and we got a good deal on some JBL 2240's at the time, so we loaded them in the cabinets and used them while those cabinets in a fixed club install with their original sealed design.

Well, when it came time to start moving these cabinets, they would not fit down some stairs being 4 feet x 4 feet, so we cut a foot off the front of it, making it only 3 feet deep.

Up until last year I continued to leave that W-Bin sealed, until a friend of mine gave me one of the JBL W-Bin boxes and I saw the ported design. Having the Cerwin Vega 189E's already I decied to build another JBL K141 W-Bin box, I dug up the plans from JBL and built another one to a T of the original design. Then it came time to determine how to port the chamber, and since I had the CV 189E's I figured I would recone them and use those.

Well I couldn't find the T/S specs for the 189E, so like I said I measured them out, and plugged them into the winISD program, and after looking at different graphs, I fould 40Hz would be a good tuning frequency for all of the W-Bins, so that is what I decided to tune all the W-Bin cabinets to based on plugging in the volume of the chamber to winISD and the T/S specs of the respective woofer.

I know the low-mid cabinet doesn't benefit from the port, but I figured I'd tune it the same so in the event I ever used it as a sub woofer.

So that is where I am at today, as you can see I have all the ports installed based on what WinISD told me to do for the lenghts, I feel I got pretty good T/S specs based on following the insturctions on the website. I was in a bind because JBL had all the T/S specs for their woofers, but Cerwin Vega couldn't provide me with anything on the 189E as it was so old, so I tried my best to determine them, and I think I came up pretty close. This is what I ended up plugging into the WinISD program as a custom driver, which I then used to find out what lenght ports I needed.
Well. Since you've basically cut a foot off the Cerwin Vega's you
probably damaged the whole concept of the design, in terms
of performance.

Also, I would imagine you scaled the internal chamber these
drivers are sitting in to determine the response.

As for using W Bins as subs, your not going to get anything
under 50 Hertz out of all the boxes used together. It usually
takes 8 W bins to get 40 Hertz, so, I assuming you are rolling
off the lower frequencies on your crossover.

The Box layout is wrong as well. W Bins are ment to be stacked
on top each other, not side by side.

Frequency wise, this is the correct way to feed those boxes


Compression Horns = 20,000 - 1 Khz

Altec/E 130 = 1 Khz - 125 Hz

W Bins = 125 - 50 Hz.

You don't need 4 way. Four way is when you have a sub.
W Bins are bass cabinets. If you are lacking in low Mids,
you use more Altec/E 130's, not W Bins.

I'm stoping right here. You will see TS numbers tommorrow
via pm, and, my email address to further discuss your setup
configuration.

This is beyond DIY Audio site, because, its not home audio
orientated, but Pro Audio orientated.

Rock ON !
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Old 22nd March 2005, 04:09 AM   #9
gjeff80 is offline gjeff80  United States
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Omniflex,

Thanks for the response! Sounds good..

I realize I could go lower w/ the Mid cabs which I would do if I were running it as a 3 way system. We used to run it as a 3 way system w/ just 3 cabinets, going with crossover points at 250 and 2.5k.

Surprisingly, the low-mid's crank coming out of the W-Bin cab, I've only got a QSC 1400 amp driving the two JBL 2226's in the cabs.

I'm running a rane AC-23 crossover, I'd like to get one of the ashley crossovers that allow you to overlap the crossover points, If I had that option I'd probably drop the low-mid w-bin cabinet down to a cut off point of 60-80hz.
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Old 16th October 2012, 10:05 AM   #10
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Hello!
I have the opportonity two buy a pair of Cerwin Vega 188EM 18" really cheap.
does anyone of you have the data, Thiele/Small data on them. and would they realy work that poor in a reflex box? If the work in a reflexbox how big should the box be and how big the port should be?? Please help me if u can, cause i dont find snything on the net except that everybody says alll cerwin 18" is build for horn. and i can swear that i have seen many slits boxes with Cerwin 18 in them. So they must work in a simple reflex box.
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