First post.
I am in the market to build a HT setup for a new place. So I was browsing Salk Exotica 3 Tower until I saw the price! Then I thought to myself, I can build this for a lot less.
This tower uses Seas Exotic drivers. Too rich for me. Particularly the woofers. The T35 tweeter is expensive but not too expensive compared to RAAL 70-10 ribbon tweeters. I am leaning towards ribbon tweeters after hearing good reviews about them. The 70-10 seems to want to be crossed above 2800Hz. So I would need a small woofer. Something like a 4.5 inch Seas Excel woofer. I saw W12CY001 and W12CY003. Difference is one is a paper cone and the other magnesium cone. Then I saw Philharmonic's Slims Tower. That uses a Tang Band 4 inch woofer that is considerably cheaper. Which should I get?
Then comes the sub. Cross this at 200Hz. Do I really need a total of four 8 inch sub? Wouldn't a single standalone 15 inch do the same thing? Then the project would become a pair of bookshelves and a 15 inch sub. Then again, there is this warm fuzzy feeling of 20hz-20khz in a pair of floorstanders.
Seems like a relatively "simple" project. Build a 2 chamber sealed cabinet, 3 way crossover and connect everything up. Sounds easy enough.
And so my questions:
1. T35 tweeter or RAAL 70-10 without getting into dome vs ribbon debate?
2. Do I need the Amorphous Core version?
3. What is the AC version?
4. Is the RAAL 64-10 available? Can't seem to find them anywhere.
5. What is a good midrange driver to match?
6. Is this still a balanced system without Seas Exotic drivers?
My prior experience in building speakers is zero. I am currently using a pair of Audioengine 5+. So this would be a huge step up. This new pair of speakers would be used for HT as well as music. I listen to mainstream pop and classical mostly. Violin pieces being the majority of my collection. Listening space would be less than 3000 cubic feet with opening to other rooms and kitchen. And most of the time opened windows.
Would appreciate any advise.
I am in the market to build a HT setup for a new place. So I was browsing Salk Exotica 3 Tower until I saw the price! Then I thought to myself, I can build this for a lot less.
This tower uses Seas Exotic drivers. Too rich for me. Particularly the woofers. The T35 tweeter is expensive but not too expensive compared to RAAL 70-10 ribbon tweeters. I am leaning towards ribbon tweeters after hearing good reviews about them. The 70-10 seems to want to be crossed above 2800Hz. So I would need a small woofer. Something like a 4.5 inch Seas Excel woofer. I saw W12CY001 and W12CY003. Difference is one is a paper cone and the other magnesium cone. Then I saw Philharmonic's Slims Tower. That uses a Tang Band 4 inch woofer that is considerably cheaper. Which should I get?
Then comes the sub. Cross this at 200Hz. Do I really need a total of four 8 inch sub? Wouldn't a single standalone 15 inch do the same thing? Then the project would become a pair of bookshelves and a 15 inch sub. Then again, there is this warm fuzzy feeling of 20hz-20khz in a pair of floorstanders.
Seems like a relatively "simple" project. Build a 2 chamber sealed cabinet, 3 way crossover and connect everything up. Sounds easy enough.
And so my questions:
1. T35 tweeter or RAAL 70-10 without getting into dome vs ribbon debate?
2. Do I need the Amorphous Core version?
3. What is the AC version?
4. Is the RAAL 64-10 available? Can't seem to find them anywhere.
5. What is a good midrange driver to match?
6. Is this still a balanced system without Seas Exotic drivers?
My prior experience in building speakers is zero. I am currently using a pair of Audioengine 5+. So this would be a huge step up. This new pair of speakers would be used for HT as well as music. I listen to mainstream pop and classical mostly. Violin pieces being the majority of my collection. Listening space would be less than 3000 cubic feet with opening to other rooms and kitchen. And most of the time opened windows.
Would appreciate any advise.
If you're in the market for a design using very expensive drivers, why not pick the most expensive speaker from this website you can afford:
DIY-Loudspeakers
You'll still save a ton of money not to mention a lot of grief designing a crossover. But I'm not entirely certain how much benefit you'll get from the speakers unless you've got the system to match. For my part, I designed a fairly modest pair of 2-way speakers and for a while I was powering them with a NAD component system. Then I decided to upgrade my amplifier and was stunned by the difference in sound. So I would consider budgeting for a complete system overhaul before choosing a speaker design.
DIY-Loudspeakers
You'll still save a ton of money not to mention a lot of grief designing a crossover. But I'm not entirely certain how much benefit you'll get from the speakers unless you've got the system to match. For my part, I designed a fairly modest pair of 2-way speakers and for a while I was powering them with a NAD component system. Then I decided to upgrade my amplifier and was stunned by the difference in sound. So I would consider budgeting for a complete system overhaul before choosing a speaker design.
Cutting out a bit of infected brain matter also sounds easy enough.
Different matter if you want the person to survive and be able to walk/talk afterwards.
Personally, I would suggest you do a LOT more research, then build something from one of the many people that publish their designs.
pam101,
from what you write it is apparent that you don't understand what is necessary to design a speaker. In this forum there is a sticky post, I suggest you to read it: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/189847-introduction-designing-crossovers-without-measurement.html. I find the best method what is described in post #20, but reading up to that post will give you some insight.
The best advice for a complete novice would be to build some published design done by a reputable designer. Making the cabinet is not trivial as it seems. In any case if you feel confident in designing something go with "value" driver (meaning good but not expensive).
Some random thoughs about what you wrote:
A sub has to be crossed below 100 Hz because over 100 Hz makes the sub locatable. So for crossing at 200 Hz you need a woofer per every speaker, thus a 3 way. A 3 way is faaaaaar more difficult that a 2 way.
You will have problems in doing a 200 Hz high pass for a 4" driver, a more sensible point would be 400-500 Hz depending on the baffle size.
Ralf
from what you write it is apparent that you don't understand what is necessary to design a speaker. In this forum there is a sticky post, I suggest you to read it: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/189847-introduction-designing-crossovers-without-measurement.html. I find the best method what is described in post #20, but reading up to that post will give you some insight.
The best advice for a complete novice would be to build some published design done by a reputable designer. Making the cabinet is not trivial as it seems. In any case if you feel confident in designing something go with "value" driver (meaning good but not expensive).
Some random thoughs about what you wrote:
A sub has to be crossed below 100 Hz because over 100 Hz makes the sub locatable. So for crossing at 200 Hz you need a woofer per every speaker, thus a 3 way. A 3 way is faaaaaar more difficult that a 2 way.
You will have problems in doing a 200 Hz high pass for a 4" driver, a more sensible point would be 400-500 Hz depending on the baffle size.
Ralf
Read here first for the basics - Link
Then buy The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook by Vance Dickason
Keep reading and researching until you understand how to pick drivers that work together, how to get accurate measurements, how to design a crossover and all the other things that I've missed (there's a hell of a lot to learn)...
If you can't be bothered with all that then build something designed by either Jeff Bagby or this guy - LINK
If you're the kind of person who's relentless and will keep going and going until your design is as good as it can be (is that even possible?) then I say go for it. If you give up easily, then build an established design.
Then buy The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook by Vance Dickason
Keep reading and researching until you understand how to pick drivers that work together, how to get accurate measurements, how to design a crossover and all the other things that I've missed (there's a hell of a lot to learn)...
If you can't be bothered with all that then build something designed by either Jeff Bagby or this guy - LINK
If you're the kind of person who's relentless and will keep going and going until your design is as good as it can be (is that even possible?) then I say go for it. If you give up easily, then build an established design.
A 1" tweeter + 5" midrange + 2 x 8" drivers in a tower is a configuration that works rather well. The 2 x 8" drivers have the surface area of a 12" not a 15".
Very expensive drivers may bring small improvements to a good design using standard range drivers but, in terms of sound quality, they are unlikely to add anything significant to a modest or worse design. A correctly sized standard range driver in a speaker would normally outperform an incorrectly sized exotic driver.
If you do not want to follow an established design but to have a go at your own design my advice would be to choose a speaker configuration you like such as the tower and then choose well behaved standard range drivers and components rather than very expensive ones. Without a lot of knowledge about speaker design there is little chance of getting everything right first time but with a bit of measurement, thought and a few corrections one may well evolve a good design as your knowledge grows.
+1
I'd also choose drivers that have a smooth frequency response, and no nasty breakup.
I could be wrong but my gut is telling me that you are more interested in the cost savings of building your own as opposed to learning how to design your own. Two very different things. You also seem to be most interested in the Raal tweeters.
So I will concur with most others and say that what you want is to build a proven design. There have been some excellent links provided so far but I'm not sure that any of them use the tweeter of your choice.
So here's another suggestion:
Jeff B happens to be one of the designers that Salk uses and he has just recently finished up a TMM design using a Raal tweeter and 2 Satori mid/woofers called the Testarossas. I believe there are 3 versions with different low end tunings: sealed, a mass loaded transmission line and a passive radiator version. But they are so recent as to not be listed for sale yet. But they are available so I would contact Meniscus directly (I've heard that phoning is the best way) and make inquiries because these should be very, very close to what you are looking for and a much, much easier way to go about getting it than trying to design your own from scratch.
So I will concur with most others and say that what you want is to build a proven design. There have been some excellent links provided so far but I'm not sure that any of them use the tweeter of your choice.
So here's another suggestion:
Jeff B happens to be one of the designers that Salk uses and he has just recently finished up a TMM design using a Raal tweeter and 2 Satori mid/woofers called the Testarossas. I believe there are 3 versions with different low end tunings: sealed, a mass loaded transmission line and a passive radiator version. But they are so recent as to not be listed for sale yet. But they are available so I would contact Meniscus directly (I've heard that phoning is the best way) and make inquiries because these should be very, very close to what you are looking for and a much, much easier way to go about getting it than trying to design your own from scratch.
Hi,
The only things "easy enough" is to make a complete
pigs ear of the job, by not remotely understanding it.
Walk before you try running, and forget about exotic
drivers, until you can build world class cabinets, in
terms of fit, finish and most importantly performance.
YMMV, but IMO given your stated requirements,
you should build these : Zaph|Audio - ZDT3.5
Bang for buck your looking at a peak in performance,
and FWIW a huge leap, which likely will be more than
good enough for a system based around an AV amp.
rgds, sreten.
The only things "easy enough" is to make a complete
pigs ear of the job, by not remotely understanding it.
Walk before you try running, and forget about exotic
drivers, until you can build world class cabinets, in
terms of fit, finish and most importantly performance.
YMMV, but IMO given your stated requirements,
you should build these : Zaph|Audio - ZDT3.5
Bang for buck your looking at a peak in performance,
and FWIW a huge leap, which likely will be more than
good enough for a system based around an AV amp.
rgds, sreten.
Last edited:
Actually, you might want to look at the Statement line as well - not a Raal but a good ribbon tweeter, the same mid as the Philharmonic in on open back design or a small upgrade in the II version, very good value woofers and for a home theater, designs available for all speakers positions and different sizes and price ranges too.
Speaker Design Works
DIY Speaker Components | Replacement Speakers | and Speaker kits from Meniscus Audio Group
Speaker Design Works
DIY Speaker Components | Replacement Speakers | and Speaker kits from Meniscus Audio Group
Thank you all for the wonderful advise.
Looks like I still have a lot to learn.
First off, cabinet design. Need to really read up on that and also others successful designs. Google is your best friend. Baffle step compensation intrigued me a lot so far. I am thinking since this will be a all sealed designed. And drivers have their manufacturer's recommended volumes, as long as I stick to them, I should be fine.
Next. Seems worth it to go with active crossover with something like minidsp. Using software to tune the speakers is something I have a lot more confidence in doing. Compared to designing passive crossover. Only issue might be needing multiple amplifiers. Any recommendations for small less than 50 watts multichannel amplifiers? I should be using Rythmik's new 8 inch subs so will probably need a 4 channel amp for tweeter and mid. Take look at this recent post https://www.facebook.com/rythmikaudio
Still early days. This is a project that would take a least 6 months. Good thing is I have couple of people locally with good carpentry skills I can tap on to help with cabinet design.
Will post more when I get started with it.
Looks like I still have a lot to learn.
First off, cabinet design. Need to really read up on that and also others successful designs. Google is your best friend. Baffle step compensation intrigued me a lot so far. I am thinking since this will be a all sealed designed. And drivers have their manufacturer's recommended volumes, as long as I stick to them, I should be fine.
Next. Seems worth it to go with active crossover with something like minidsp. Using software to tune the speakers is something I have a lot more confidence in doing. Compared to designing passive crossover. Only issue might be needing multiple amplifiers. Any recommendations for small less than 50 watts multichannel amplifiers? I should be using Rythmik's new 8 inch subs so will probably need a 4 channel amp for tweeter and mid. Take look at this recent post https://www.facebook.com/rythmikaudio
Still early days. This is a project that would take a least 6 months. Good thing is I have couple of people locally with good carpentry skills I can tap on to help with cabinet design.
Will post more when I get started with it.
Since you're into the whole SEAS Exotic line, do check out the SEAS A26 kit design:
SEAS A26 Kit
It has a strong relation to the DeVore Fidelity Orangutan O/93 Loudspeakers design.
SEAS A26 Kit
It has a strong relation to the DeVore Fidelity Orangutan O/93 Loudspeakers design.
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