Beyma TPL-200H

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
I currently use TPL-150H in my MTM curved setup for home theatre behind a false wall.

IMG_0322_zpsf8251757.jpg


I am happy with them but are always looking for improvements and i am thinking about switching them out for the new TPL-200H version.

Has anyone tried or reviewed the TPL-200 in horn or non horn version?
 
From the datasheets, it seems that Beyma has manufactured at least three versions of the TPL AMT tweeters.
TPL-150 (80W, 5.9 ohms)
TPL-150Silver and TPL-150Black Lower resistance (80W, 4.9 ohms)
TPL-200 (120W, 4.9 ohms) Higher Power

It is possible that the research in this 2010 Beyma AES paper resulted in construction changes used in the latest TPL pleated membranes and motor.

http://www.beyma.com/uploads/descargas/1355215096.pdf
==================

Did you ever consider a TMW design? A TMW with an 8" or 10" M crossed ~1600Hz and a 15"-18" woofer crossed ~80-100Hz would remove M-T and M-M lobing due to spacing, provide a smoother controlled directivity pattern, and deliver deep bass. The TPL-150H horn is listed at H=80 degree, V=40 degree dispersion, and a tight C-to-C physical spacing to a midrange with the same H=80 polar could provide a smooth directivity curve.

==================

Doug's thread "10" MTM with NeoPro5i Ribbon - Build Thread" is a good reminder of dispersion and lobing limitations in an MTM when the center-to-center spacing is greater than half the crossover frequency wavelength.

"1. Unacceptable vertical response caused by the MTM arrangement of the TD10M drivers.

The drivers ended up being spaced about 18” apart C-C to make room for the NeoPro5i in between. That 18” spacing corresponds to a wavelength of 750Hz which means the first serious null would be around 1500Hz. If you take a look at the vertical response of the two TD10M drivers in their MTM arrangement, you’ll see the severity of the problem. At just 15 degrees off axis, there’s a 20dB dip at 1500Hz which is completely unacceptable. Things only get worse from there, with a plethora of peaks and nulls as you move farther off axis."

If you can accept ~94db/watt SPL efficiency, a TMW with an 8" midbass and 18" woofer crossed at 1,500Hz and 150Hz is one proven topology. A custom built 90 x 40 constant directivity horn would be the classic home disperions pattern.
 

Attachments

  • TPL150_200.jpg
    TPL150_200.jpg
    118.9 KB · Views: 2,315
For this application there may not be a noticeable difference, the 200 has a little more power capacity and slightly improved efficiency.

The biggest difference is in the response above 10K, if the current design is equalized electronically in the crossover or acoustically then this eq will not match the other unit.

I would not be too concerned about lobing issues, your design looks good to me, I bet they sound very nice.
To find the actual dispersion characteristics you need to measure, as the resulting response off-axis depends not only on the distance between the drivers, but also the dispersion of the individual drivers, the crossover also affects the response around the crossover freq.
The TPL has quite narrow vertical pattern, and is nowhere close to linear within 20 degrees.
 
For this application there may not be a noticeable difference, the 200 has a little more power capacity and slightly improved efficiency.

The biggest difference is in the response above 10K, if the current design is equalized electronically in the crossover or acoustically then this eq will not match the other unit.

I would not be too concerned about lobing issues, your design looks good to me, I bet they sound very nice.
To find the actual dispersion characteristics you need to measure, as the resulting response off-axis depends not only on the distance between the drivers, but also the dispersion of the individual drivers, the crossover also affects the response around the crossover freq.
The TPL has quite narrow vertical pattern, and is nowhere close to linear within 20 degrees.

Thank you for a good answer.

I have a digital DSP with crossover and advanced eq to manage the frequency response.

I was hoping that the 200H had a little more resolution and transparency than the 150H and also more power from reading the specs.

Both of those features is welcome in my setup.

I had a titanium drive horn unit before my TPL and i miss how loud it was when i wanted to crank it really loud.
I have double 21" (2000w amp each) for bass delivery so the TPL is the part lacking when i want to play really LOUD.
 
Thank you for a good answer.

I have a digital DSP with crossover and advanced eq to manage the frequency response.

I was hoping that the 200H had a little more resolution and transparency than the 150H and also more power from reading the specs.

Both of those features is welcome in my setup.

I had a titanium drive horn unit before my TPL and i miss how loud it was when i wanted to crank it really loud.
I have double 21" (2000w amp each) for bass delivery so the TPL is the part lacking when i want to play really LOUD.

Just thought i could provide some info, as I just did some measurements and testing on the 200.

I find it strange that the tpl is not able to provide enough spl, as it should be plenty loud enough for the relatively close listening distance in a smaller room.
You could try a higher crossover freq, but I suspect there are other issues at play here, not necessarily spl limitations on the tpl, but differences between the reposne/sound of tpl and the other horn driver causing the perception of less headroom or dynamics.
 
Just thought i could provide some info, as I just did some measurements and testing on the 200.

I find it strange that the tpl is not able to provide enough spl, as it should be plenty loud enough for the relatively close listening distance in a smaller room.
You could try a higher crossover freq, but I suspect there are other issues at play here, not necessarily spl limitations on the tpl, but differences between the reposne/sound of tpl and the other horn driver causing the perception of less headroom or dynamics.

It´s kinda hard to explain, the titanium driver i had did not have the silky resolution and sound quality but they had that rough dynamics at high volume and the feeling that you wanted to turn it louder and louder!
That i thought was also because of the higher sensitivity. If i had two db more sensitivity, and higher power handling it would give me some of the same?

What differences have you found on the 200 vs the 150 ?
distortion numbers?

I have removed the back chamber and built a bigger chamber of about 1 liter dampened.

Face :
Crossover is at 2000hz
B&C 8PE21 mid :
B&C Speakers

The best one i´ve used till now. Absolutely wonderful!
 
... had that rough dynamics at high volume and the feeling that you wanted to turn it louder and louder!
...

Exactly.
You start out listening to some music, level is kind of civilized, then you find some more music, turn it up a little, and there it goes.
End up listening at levels very far from anything civilized, because the experience just keep getting better the louder it is, and the ears adapt to the higher spl as you start out on a decent level and turn it up in smaller steps.

From then information given here, I find it difficult to point out what causes your perceived difference between the drivers.
What is certain, though, is that the answer lies in the frequency response, the sound field properties (relationship pressure/particle velocity/sound power, larger horn gives more sound power), and distortion profile.
My guess is sound field properties plays a much larger role than what is currently considered in traditional audio science.

If you remove the rear chamber on the tpl, keep in mind that the response will change quite dramatically.
Both the felt pad close to the diaphragm and the chamber is tuned to give a reasonably smooth, flat response.
Removing the felt and the chamber will give a response that is different, and requires work with horn, new chamber, crossover or dsp, to get it right.
 
Exactly.
You start out listening to some music, level is kind of civilized, then you find some more music, turn it up a little, and there it goes.
End up listening at levels very far from anything civilized, because the experience just keep getting better the louder it is, and the ears adapt to the higher spl as you start out on a decent level and turn it up in smaller steps.

From then information given here, I find it difficult to point out what causes your perceived difference between the drivers.
What is certain, though, is that the answer lies in the frequency response, the sound field properties (relationship pressure/particle velocity/sound power, larger horn gives more sound power), and distortion profile.
My guess is sound field properties plays a much larger role than what is currently considered in traditional audio science.

If you remove the rear chamber on the tpl, keep in mind that the response will change quite dramatically.
Both the felt pad close to the diaphragm and the chamber is tuned to give a reasonably smooth, flat response.
Removing the felt and the chamber will give a response that is different, and requires work with horn, new chamber, crossover or dsp, to get it right.

I am aware of that, and i use a digital processor (4in, 8 out XLR) and advanced measurement equipment to fine tune the system.

Still thinking about the TPL-200H... hmmm.. Hehe :)
 
Curious if the TPL-200 can play any lower at low volumes compared to the TPL150?

But in the response shape it actually looks like the 150 goes a touch lower before roll off than the 150. 200 is more powerful but I hope it is when comparing apples to apples.

I am looking at going back to the TPL in my next speaker build with horn loaded 10's. Which TPL I dont know yet. BUT I also have a pair of PHL 3451 10" mids I could also use them with so ......decisions decisions. :)
 
I'm using the TPL-150h with the Acoustic Elegance TD12M, passively crossed over @ 1800 Hz, with an 18" OEM Eminence driver electronically crossed over (Driverack 4820) @ 90 Hz with a 12 dB/oct. Linkwitz-Riley slope. I considered ordering the TPL-200h, but other than the power handling, the two drivers seemed very similar to each other. . .
 
System215: Interesting! I don’t want to go OT in this TPL 200 thread but would you mind sharing your findings? Have you written about it somewhere already? I’m building myself now a very similar system; TD12 M + TPL 150H + 18” as subs, even similar active filter, you have dbx 4820 and I plan to use the predecessor dbx 482 (lended out at the moment to a friend). My thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...e-td12-m-beyma-tpl-150h-advices-welcomed.html
 
Crossover is at 2000hz
B&C 8PE21 mid :
B&C Speakers

The best one i´ve used till now. Absolutely wonderful!

Hello Rizla.

Would you mind ellaborating on the 8PE21 and what other drivers did you compare it to?

I need to decide on a midrange driver and have TPL-150H, looking to xo somewhere in the 2-2.5kHz range in a fully active system, and the 8PE21 as direct radiator is one serious candidate. In my case it would be TMWW though.
 
System215: Interesting! I don’t want to go OT in this TPL 200 thread but would you mind sharing your findings? Have you written about it somewhere already? I’m building myself now a very similar system; TD12 M + TPL 150H + 18” as subs, even similar active filter, you have dbx 4820 and I plan to use the predecessor dbx 482 (lended out at the moment to a friend). My thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...e-td12-m-beyma-tpl-150h-advices-welcomed.html

Adhoc1, Well your project is rather a larger one than mine. In my own case, the speakers are best described as semi-DIY. That is, I chose the AE and Beyma drivers and a box design of approx. 55 L tuned to 45 Hz. Turns out I should have tuned the boxes higher or used them sealed. More on that later. Then I sent AE and Beyma driver specs to Solen (Home - Solen Electronique - World leading producer of high-end crossover components) for passive crossover design as I have not had satisfactory results using electronic crossovers. Solen designed a crossover with a L-R 12 dB/oct. low pass at 1 kHz and a L-R 12 db/oct. high pass at 1500 Hz. Sounded terrible! I then took the completed cabinets with their inadequate crossovers to Audio Hardware, Inc. here in Toronto. The owner there, Steve Kranis, has long experience designing passive crossovers and came up with crossover design centred at 1.8 kHz that works very well. He also pointed out my errors in the box design, but also demonstrated with both listening and measurement tests that using a L-R 12 dB/oct. low pass on the subwoofer and letting the mains run full-range enables a near-seamless integration between the 12" AE driver and the 18" Eminence. With an MC2 Audio S1400 for the subs and a Lab-Gruppen IPD2400 for the mains, I'm pleased with the results. I'm now comparing this system with a similar system I also put together with Steve Kranis's input: a TAD TD-2001/DDS circular horn crossed over at 1400 Hz with an 18 dB/oct. slope and a TAD TM-1201 crossed over at the same frequency but with a 12 dB/oct. slope. These mains modules are then crossed over, using a Bryston 10B, with a low pass of 12 dB/oct. @ 200 Hz, to a pair of TAD TL-1801s in 9.3 cu. ft. cabinets tuned to 30 Hz. Both systems are extremely satisfying, but have only had the Beyma/AE/Eminence set up for a short time, so the comparative judgement is not in yet. . .
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for the info. Too bad your first crossover try just cost you money. Still, I think such info may be just as valuable as successes for those who are thinking about similar builds.

I don’t see the system I’m contemplating as "rather larger" than the one you have by the way. The 4 front mono subs in their positions are mainly to even out width and height modes (centers placed at 1/4 from sidewalls, floor and ceiling) and the subs at the back wall to even out length modes.

As you run it now with Kranis’ new filter, is it with decreased volume as sealed or ported box with a changed higher tuning?
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.