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Old 17th October 2014, 03:07 PM   #1
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Default X-over thoughts with tweeter and fullrange

Hi all. I am new to speaker/xover design and not quite looking for the "perfect" balance....yet. But, what I could use is a little help from those who are experienced.

I have the following driver/tweeters and would like to pair them in the following manner.
Pair 1:
Dayton Audio RS75-4 3" Reference Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm
1/2" Mylar Dome Shielded Tweeter 8 Ohm


Pair 2:
HiVi B3N 3" Aluminum Driver Round Frame
Tang Band 13-1761S 1/2" Silk Dome Tweeter Pair

Can anyone make a recommendation on a good or maybe simple way to split the signal to these drivers?
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Old 17th October 2014, 03:33 PM   #2
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Hi,

Both of those 3" drivers have enough top end that you may not need a tweeter. Many persons would be matching them with a woofer rather than a tweeter. What did you have in mind?
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Old 17th October 2014, 03:58 PM   #3
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+1 on Cal's comment.

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Old 17th October 2014, 04:12 PM   #4
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If you have to use your existing drivers, the TB tweeter will probably work out OK with the 3" driver, but you must cross over to it pretty high (no lower than about 5kHz). The mylar dome tweeter is junk, and that is why you paid $1 for it. Seriously, throw it in the trash.

Of the 3" drivers, the RS75 is the clear winner there.

It would be better to get the proper drivers for a "real" 2-way. Small diameter full range drivers (e.g. 3") represent a strongly compromised design that tries to do everything and does nothing very well. You will want something at least 5.25" or larger (up to about 7" max) and a good quality 1" dome tweeter with Fs < 700Hz.

Regarding "splitting the signal" you need to design a crossover. Check out Passive Crossover Designer or (better) WinPCD. You will want at least a second order electrical network on the small tweeter and then design the woofer low pass network to match it and to correct for the baffle loss at lower frequencies. Efficiency will be very low with the 3" driver, and this is why it's a compromise.
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Last edited by CharlieLaub; 17th October 2014 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 17th October 2014, 04:52 PM   #5
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Thoughts: IF the tw shows a falling response above 10 kHz, its sensitivity would fall too in that band.
So starting with 1 uF ...Probably a resistor for matching the outputs, also.
The tweeter shall be as close (=attached to the frame) as possible
Possible inductor candidates : about 0.1/0.3 mH for 8 Ω ( should be halved for 4 Ω )

Last edited by picowallspeaker; 17th October 2014 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 17th October 2014, 05:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieLaub View Post
Of the 3" drivers, the RS75 is the clear winner there.
But there are better ones.

Quote:
It would be better to get the proper drivers for a "real" 2-way. Small diameter full range drivers (e.g. 3") represent a strongly compromised design that tries to do everything and does nothing very well.
Maybe in the selection of FRs you have tried. We have very good (bass shy) performance with some 3" drivers, and superb all round performance using them with helper woofers. We are picky wrt the drivers we use,

Picture is an example of a satelitte that works near fieild/little low bass, with the same footprint helper woofers. Used as a FAST this setup is every bit as good, and i'd say better, than a typical cone+dome 2-way.

Click the image to open in full size.

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Old 17th October 2014, 06:05 PM   #7
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I have only heard a few small full range systems (and it's not my thing so I don't really have much background in them) but those that I heard were horribly colored and really sounded like doo doo.

Any 3" driver is going to have a hard time reaching, and reproducing, 100Hz while at the same time reproducing the rest of the audio spectrum. So it's a compromise. With a 2-way (like what you show with your small helper woofers) the situation is definitely improved a bit.

I'm not at all against "wideband" drivers. In fact I am in love with a 2" TangBand that I have used in several speaker as a large format tweeter (radiating area is more like 1.5" diameter). I cross over much lower than a true tweeter (e.g. around 700Hz) to woofers that do the heavy lifting. Efficiency is not bad either. But I would not ask this driver to go below 700Hz because my measurements show that distortion rises and exceeds several percent by the time you reach 100-200Hz!
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Old 17th October 2014, 06:16 PM   #8
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Hey Charlie,

The drivers of today really do make all the difference. Years ago this might not be acceptable but there is a reason this FR and helper woofer is becoming popular.
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Old 18th October 2014, 12:17 AM   #9
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Thanks all for the great feedback. I guess I can toss those tweeters, they were a last minute thought anyway.

So here is the reason why I was trying to keep everything tiny. I am sure this will cause a few face-palms but here goes.

Attached is my project. Its a raspberry pi powered WiFi radio. This one happens to be mono but I have another that will be stereo. My goal was to keep a small foot print but maintain decent sound...something I think sonos do pretty well. I just figured they were too expensive and thought I could do a decent job on my own. I will ditch the tweeter, as I have another plate without its mount hole.

Perhaps the sheer product/purpose of my design negates some of the high quality audiophile suggestions above?
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Old 18th October 2014, 06:59 PM   #10
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Also, could someone explain Zaph's filter to me? I am reading his site but still struggling.
Click the image to open in full size.
zaph|audio
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