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Old 20th September 2014, 03:13 PM   #1
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Default What to do with this 2 ways empty cabinet?

Hi,

I have two cabinet of Jensen model 20, a sealed two ways. Surrounds foam of the bass are dust after 30 years. I found any spare of this 8 ohms boomer nore i fpund its sensivity or spec on the net. I just know the XO is first order 4 k hz and th etweeters are working (paper of 3.5 cm diameter with the phase plug in paper).

Cabinet is -inside measurements (net volume)- : 41 cm x 26 (width) x 16 cm (depth)= 16" x 10" x 6.3"

tweeter hole is 8 cm / 3.15" diameter
boomer hole is 21cm / 8.26" diameter with the screws holes.

Do you know a freeware or a link to convert such measurements into liters for choosing drivers ?

What could be please the choice of two cheap drivers la Vifa/Peereless for the tweet and (peereless or other inexpensive choice?) for the boomer. It has to be cheap as the cabinet is not SOTA builded and I would have to buy also the passive filter (so the minimal order possible...). something less than 200 USD with filter parts, the lower possible cost.

Any idea please ?

Thanks in advance a lot for help...
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Old 20th September 2014, 03:36 PM   #2
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Cabinet is -inside measurements (net volume)- : 41 cm x 26 (width) x 16 cm (depth)= 16" x 10" x 6.3"

tweeter hole is 8 cm / 3.15" diameter
boomer hole is 21cm / 8.26" diameter with the screws holes.
16 litres.

The tweeter cutout is large, so IF you replace it, it will have to be a 104mm driver:
H1212-06 27TBFC/G

The woofer hole doesn't sound right. It's the cutout size that matters, not the screw holes. Screw holes are described as a PCD diameter. Will this fit?
W 200 S - 8 Ohm

The tweeter looks like the old and famous phenolic ring tweeter. I'd keep it.

You will need to do some crossover work in all likelihood. Downloads

Here's some ideas:
8"+1" two-way DIY speakers
Attached Images
File Type: png Jensen Model 20.PNG (208.8 KB, 115 views)
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Old 20th September 2014, 05:04 PM   #3
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Thank you Steve,

both for drivers ref and link.

Exactly this one ! Have you got this speaker in your collection ? Did you notice the funny front covert ? metalic, stator like with fabric glued on it

It sounds like too much expensive without active eq. I have ARta with a non calibrate ecm-8000 mic but with no arta box and no empty space but a room or a living room where I can do some measurements in the afternoon !

Could it possible with such a load ("genuily" fulled at 25% with glass fiber or roch fiber) to decide in advance for a "aproximate" cut off" with a couple of known drivers ?

The hole with the srews is 21 cm, maybe 20.8 cm (surmise acurate measurement is inchees ?!) the Inside is 18 cm diameter...

Note if i listen to it without the surround we have a BR like a Jensen load (the port is around the driver) but here it is between the driver and its cone... ouarf ouarf ! But I did'nt try !
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMAG1224.jpg (400.3 KB, 105 views)
File Type: jpg IMAG1225.jpg (465.0 KB, 97 views)
File Type: jpg IMAG1226.jpg (513.8 KB, 96 views)

Last edited by Eldam; 20th September 2014 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 20th September 2014, 05:29 PM   #4
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Could it be valid to stay with the originals tweeters which are crossed with a first order at 4 Khz with a 2.7 uF cap and keep the original self on the Visaton ?

The Visaton feets, it could be screwed on the front panel and the 18 cm hole is just right !

I saw on your link that you XO at 3 k hz in the break up cone region of the W200S.... the seas has a good reputation of softness : so if used should you advise for a "bad" work a Xo at 3 k hz (like the filter you show ).

Or is it possible acording to you to have an acceptable approximation with mic measurement at home ?

Two needs :

no money spent on several filter adjustrment
it's not for me but for my brother and a third system....

Is a no-go should be a better advise than an aproximativ work for a third system with a little old Pioneer amp and a simple moded cd player for ocasional listening ?

1) no-go : just too hard for a first diy and basic knowledge
2) go with just the Visaton boomer with the original self (original xo at 4 khz)
3) go with the Visaton and also the brandnew tweeter with approximativ at home measurement hopping the simplier order possible because the cost

Last edited by Eldam; 20th September 2014 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 20th September 2014, 05:57 PM   #5
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Your speaker is very like the old Acoustic Research AR4, which is familiar to me. I've done a lot of work and study on this precise combination of drivers. I'm sorry to say the simplistic crossovers just don't work well. I've built them, so I know.

Regular 8" paper bass tends to rolloff naturally at about 3kHz.

This is a very nice bass too:
H1471-08 CA22RNY

You will need at least a 1.5mH coil on the Visaton W200S bass unit to flatten its response because your Jensen bass was a different animal. Try the simple cap on the tweeter by all means, but for a good sound you need second order bass and third order on a cone tweeter.

This off-the-shelf crossover is near enough too if you lose the 10uF:
http://visaton.com/en/chassis_zubeho...w2_70ng_8.html

But this would be a great beginners project. Quite happy to help with precise component values if you want to go ahead.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Modified_MA-R300MD_HT22-8.jpg (79.0 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg Wooden Crossover with Tagstrip.jpg (91.7 KB, 31 views)
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Good Night, and Good Luck. Best regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.

Last edited by system7; 20th September 2014 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 20th September 2014, 10:17 PM   #6
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

It's not that complicated to repair the bass drivers with
the many refoaming kits kits that that are available.

Your best bet IMO, if your practically minded.

rgds, sreten.
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Last edited by sreten; 20th September 2014 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 21st September 2014, 12:27 PM   #7
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Hi Streten,

i asked a little help about it wit no sucess : Jensen model 20 restoration ? i gave up the idea because the only refoam kit for that speaker I found is from USA. With custom taxes and administrative fees, it is near 100 euros... which is a no go for this modest speaker.

But as you are britanic, I assume there are a lot of refoam kit to have such answer ! So I have been loooking for today a kit with the equivalent model Steve mentioned : Acoustic Research model 4 and i find just this link : Speaker Repair Kit Foam Surrounds AR 4,6,7,8SE,16,17 incl. glue+brush | eBay

yes a best bet as it is more about souvenirs to be saved from the gardbage and a third system for rare ocasional listening ! Even if with Steve's help this speaker can surely climb in the rank of the listened speaker at my brother' s home !

thank you again Steve & Streten for coaching and helps, I believe the repair kit is nearer of the price and the initial goal wisches.

Eldam
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Old 21st September 2014, 05:38 PM   #8
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Hi Steve,

just for the fun and for the love of our hobby: a photograph with the fiber glass removed ! no Self !

the only passive filter part is a little MKT or MKP axial 2.7 cap... I doubt it can be electro-chemical...

Well, the Purchasing Director was a killer !

Nearly like a famous recent american 2 ways 3A something without filter... (but this last in the LP filter ; and also with a home made driver, this time in wooden carbon-fiber!). This last is a speaker to (almost) die for (I prefer the bass and mid-bass of a well designed 3 ways).... certainly the Jensen model is not... but a lot of good souvenirs... Beatles and Simon Carfunkel, also Pink Floyd when I was seven with this first speaker of my old brother... H ! la Hifi, c'est aussi a !
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File Type: jpg IMAG1228.jpg (866.6 KB, 15 views)

Last edited by Eldam; 21st September 2014 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 21st September 2014, 05:49 PM   #9
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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I always reviving like old cabinets, because they save me boring woodwork!

The advice stands to get an affordable new 8" bass unit and fit it with a bit of filing down.

Here in the UK you can buy a cheap 20 Euro Chinese clone:
80W 8in Shielded Bass Mid Range Speaker | Maplin

Crossover can be as simple or as complicated as you like. I am one of the more experienced people to help you with a design. Jensen didn't do anything very interesting IMO. We can do better.
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Old 21st September 2014, 06:16 PM   #10
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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I love also UK for that... the place of the hifi "for all" and also a lot of choice like jadis with the car brands... Pfff 20 euros ! I just can't imagine trhe price paid for the workers !

oh yes I'm sure this is the Place to do better than this simple two ways.

Saw a lot of things with fellows here and some famous Net fronted diyers like Troels, Zaph, Humblehomemaid and many others.

I have as a main system with a speaker designed by Phil Jones and him staff when he was at Boston Acoustic : Lynnfirld 400L... a dramatic 85 DB 5" mid driver but a maid home mid with multi aluminium cone crossed at 125 hz to 2600 and a smart band pass bass cabinet with two 7" paper cone and double inversed speeders ! 35 hz to 30 k hz...

My first diy was with the advises here and also with the Phil Jones ones to make a passive notch as i found the tweeter too brighty (you can find a thread here I opened some times ago: tweeter and passive filter... something.

After a great improvement with this 4 khz narrow notch, I put medical coton fiber behind the aluminium dome as I checked the Ferrofluid (hard to check a FF vidcosity when uou know there are several ones...) just to try ! ! ANd it was a great improvement also !

Well, I love this place, even if my english speaking is bad ... we share the same passion !

Last edited by Eldam; 21st September 2014 at 06:19 PM.
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