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-   -   Cloning WAMM? (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/26171-cloning-wamm.html)

mephistoso 16th January 2004 08:27 AM

Cloning WAMM?
 
Serious thinking about cloning WAMM.
Probably use 4 way active X'over.

I'll use Audiom 15 wx for sub tower,
pair of used dynaudio 21W-54s instead of two KEF B139s,
9 Accuton C12-6s instead of 9 4x4 ESs.
lack of two 4~5" mid cones (which must be very powerful) and 1" hi drivers (maybe old Focal TC 120?).....

Any suggestion?

Petter 16th January 2004 09:48 AM

You need to go here http://www.klone-audio.com/

DeonC 16th January 2004 11:39 AM

Hi mephistoso

>> Serious thinking about cloning WAMM.
>> Probably use 4 way active X'over.
Ambitious project! I like it!! :D :D

>> I'll use Audiom 15 wx for sub tower,
I would have used an Adire Brahma sub drivers myself, but the Focals are nice. The AuraSound (at Madisound) subwoofers also look interesting, but they are pricey.

>> pair of used dynaudio 21W-54s instead of two KEF B139s,
Good choice. In this range, conside the Scan drivers as well. The Davis top-of-the-line looks good too, and I have to urge you to look at the Supravox drivers as well. Another consideration is a pair of the TAD-Pioneer 11" mid-basses.

>> 9 Accuton C12-6s instead of 9 4x4 ESs.
Have you thought of using good ribbons? Those Accutons are very expensive, and you could look to the Fountek JP-3.0 (from Madisound, the one with the square frame). E-Speakers also has a nice selection of ribbons, or you can look at the B&G Neo3PDR. The only problem you'll have is the dispertion pattern (however, if you use the B&G Neo3PDR ribbons, you can build a 5 X 5 Bessel array for the same price as 9 Accuton C12-6s).

>> lack of two 4~5" mid cones (which must be very powerful)
A couple of candidates come to mind. The Davis mids (see PartsExpress), PHL (see E-Speakers.com) and the Skaanings and Scan mids (see Madisound). You can also look at the Eminence pro mids.

>> and 1" hi drivers (maybe old Focal TC 120?).....
NO! Not unless you are prepared to spray them like Dick Olsher (sp.?) did with his one kit (the Black Dahlias? can't remember which) to tame them a bit. Look toward Scan (the D2905 series, or go to PartsExpress for their version of the dual-concentric), Vifa (their dual-concentric), and even some of the other Accuton units. Some more interesting looking drivers to consider come from AuraSound (at Madisound). The "COUGAR" NSW1-205-8A 1" Full Range and the "WHISPER" NSW2-326-8A 2" Full Range could very VERY interesting in this postion (depending on your XO points).

>> Any suggestion?
Ok, you asked for it :) :) A pair of Adire Audio Brahma 15" XO @ 80Hz to a pair of PHL 3430 mid-bass, XO @ 500Hz to PHL 1120 mids, XO @ 5kHz to a planar 5 X 5 Bessel array with the B&G planars :bigeyes: How does that catch your fancy :D

Enjoy,
Deon

mephistoso 16th January 2004 01:43 PM

Hi DeonC
Thanks for your valuable info.

The most reason I cloning WAMM is the Exterior design. I've a friend who used to have a pair WAMM (II I guess), It's beautiful, elegent, looks like an European Furniture...hehe..
I also like the idea that user can move driver's position. 4 way active X'over just make it easier and Probably don't need the Amcrown EQ.

The reason I choose Audiom 15 is because this is the same driver for WAMM 7a and X1. (oh, pricy....)
Dynaudio 21W-54 is also the driver been choose for Puppy. These used drives are I already have...(save $)
About the 4~5" mid, There'r some combos:
used Dynaudio mid w/old version Focal tweeter.
or Scan 13M w/Scan or Focal tweeter.
or Audax w/ Audax. or even Accuton + Accuton.

For the static module, a very stupid idea come to my mind: a pair of used Quad ESL63 include all mid-hi frequency.
In this case, 3 way active X'over should be fine:
Audiom 15 /75~90hz/ Dynaudio 21W /400~500Hz/ Quad ESL63 + mid/tweetwe w/pasive x'over.

How do you think?

Thanks

DeonC 16th January 2004 02:34 PM

Hi there

I like your idea for the Quads in the WAMMs. :) BUT, here I'm going to throw a spanner in the works. If you want to go with the Quads (a very good idea, IMHO), leave the Dynaudios out of the equation. Build a MASSIVE frame to mount them on, each panel on it's own, and then build an open-baffle bass for it. The Audioms will be too low Q for this to work, so you'll have to look at other options for the bass drivers. A Linkwitz-like W-baffle OB bass system will open your eyes to what quality bass is really about. To experiment with OBs, download Thorsten's excellent Xlbaffle spreadsheet. Here's the link:
http://www.exdreamnet.de/download/Xlbaffle.xls

If you want to stay with the WAMM idea, use the Focal Audiom and the Dyns, and then see if you can get the 5" Dynaudio mids (15W75 if memory serves). Then from them XO to the bessel array of B&G drivers. Two 3X3 arrays of Accuton tweeters (18 drivers in total) will cost you $2600+. Two 5X5 Bessel arrays of the B&G drivers will cost you less than $2200, and I think sound superior. As you probably know, the idea of a Bessel arrays is that the arrays has the same dispertion characteristics as a single driver, but with MUCH improved power-handling. That will sound much better than a plain 3X3 array of whatever drivers.

If the total cost of the B&G drivers is a bit daunting, have a look at the Silver Flute YAG-10 Ribbon Tweeters at Madisound. They cost only $17.50 each (and you'd probably get a volume discount if you buy all 50 needed for the full arrays), so your total cost for the two arrays (at full price) will be only be $875 (but very probably less after a volume discount). That is cheap enough to experiment with.

I must admit that I personally think that the Scan mids are superior to the Dynaudio 5"ers, but if you're using the Dyn 21W-54s in a XO point as high as you are, then you might have a timbre discontinuity going from the Dyn to the Scan (polly -> kevlar = no good). OTOH, I actually think the best place for the 21W-54s is a clone of the WATT/Puppy. I'm not so sure they'll sound so good used as high at 500Hz, but YMMV.

Personally of the two systems I think that the Quad/open-baffle sub system will be MUCH superior. If I were you I'd sell the Dyn 21W-54s (and the Audioms) and go the full-on open-baffle route, but, it's your money, and you have to live with the results :)

If you use the Quads I would suggest a serious and complete rebuild of the electronics, using the best parts you can get (PIO caps, etc).

Well, whatever you do, have fun and don't neglect to post your results here :D

Enjoy,
Deon

Ultima GTR 6th March 2011 12:21 AM

WAMM
 
I know I'm a little late to this thread but I thought I'd post my WAMM project for others to see. I built this in the mid-90's, so I don't have great knowledge of the crossover. But I will share my memories and if you have any other questions, I'd be happy to dig deep and try to remember those details.

I based my project off of a WAMM 4. I had a friend at the time that had a real WAMM 4 and he allowed me the opportunity to go to his home and inspect it. This basically meant that I took it apart and looked at every detail of Wilson's design.

I'll start with a few pics. Here is a link to my website with pics of the real Wilson WAMM 4 and of my version of the WAMM. You'll also see pics of other speaker projects I've tackled over the years.

Loudspeakers

Ok so here it goes from memory. I used a JBL 18" drivers for the subs. Unfortunately, I never took any pictures of them, but it was housed in a coffin like cabinet. The main speakers were a Dynaudio 30W100, (2) Focal 5", (2) Focal T90, and a Jantzen ESL panel (4 ESL drivers per side). Initially it was all driven by a passive xover, but after frustrations in the ability to easily adjust and change the very complicated system, I opted for a 3 way active xover. I used a simple xover inside the Focal boxes as that part is well refined and simplified my effort. Oddly enough the toughest part of this system is the structure. The boxes hanging off the upright like they do creates huge torque on the vertical support. But it is very important to be able to adjust the forward and backward movement of the Focal and ESL drivers. As far as crossover frequency goes, I remember that the best results were achieved when the ESL overlapped the Focal boxes and had a high pass xover from say 1k hz up. Allowing both Focal and ESL to work from 1k up in tandem. This seemed to provide the dynamics of the cones with the incredible detail of the ESL's. The ESL's were driven at substantially lower level than the Focals. The huge weakness of my design was the single Dynaudio 30W100 a 12" driver. It just didn't have enough to keep up with the potential SPL of the rest of the upper system. From a sound perspective, these had a huge voice. The image was massive and really wonderful presentation. I liken it to going to watch a movie at the theatre versus a hd tv at home. You see the same movie, but in the theatre it is massive.

Anyway, I ultimately sold these on eBay and moved on to another project.

Paul

Few 6th March 2011 12:59 AM

Thanks for sharing the details and photos, Paul. It looks like quite a project!
Few

icaster 18th September 2011 05:09 AM

Thank you for your sharing of your project!

Would you pls share schematic diagrams for wamm 4 you had buillt? I want to try same project.

John

Ultima GTR 20th February 2012 03:57 AM

Sorry John. I need to check in here more often. The only passive crossover I used was inside the Focal box with the 5" & 1" drivers. I'm sure if you want to replicate that Madisound has plenty of schematics to choose from depending on the drivers you select.

I'm in the middle of another WAMM-like project. This one will also use the RTR electrostats to overlay cone drivers. This one will incorporate the best of the best that I have built over the years.

For the subs I'll use the THOR system designed by Linkwitz. For the bass, I'll use the IB design in the Linkwitz Orion (2-10" Peerless) and in the tower I'm going to use 2- 2" Aurasound drivers (NSW2-326-8A-120) per cabinet (4 total per side), and then 2 RTR panels per channel. The THOR has its own active cover and then I have a Beringer active cover for the main towers. The only thing I have to figure out is the shaping network for the IB bass system. Anyone have any suggestions on that?

Paul

darkmatter 21st February 2014 04:37 PM

Did think about having a go at this about 10 years ago myself
Other bass drivers I considered including finding B139s for midbass and JBL 2245 for the sub.


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