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Old 13th July 2014, 07:47 AM   #1
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Default New Linkwitz "LXmini" speakers

EDITOR'S NOTE:

As requested this thread is split off from the thread "MiniDSP as Linkwitz Orion ASP"
MiniDSP as Linkwitz Orion ASP
This is a new thread for discussion of the new LXmini speakers from Siegfried Linkwitz and their associated MiniDSP processors.

Variac
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Hi Gents,

Sorry if a i'm going off topic, but with regards to Mini DSP I was think of using a pair of LJH 1969 Amps kit (40 v dual rails to get max o/p-35Watts? ) to to Mini DSP and then a pair of Pluto clones (can't Afford to to the Orions sadly)

Does anyone know if this combo would get down to 40 Hz (similar to the plutos, or even if the damping factor of the amp is sufficient to do this?)

I have time but no money, this looks like it could "get me there" for PC or nearfield speakers for less cash than buying the Plutos outright (which i cant afford anyway!), any thoughts gents

thank you
JOHNNY

Last edited by Variac; 15th July 2014 at 04:42 AM.
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Old 13th July 2014, 09:53 PM   #2
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Thanks Varaic,

looks like a challenge! On the site mr Linkwitz states the damping factor of the amp should be over 50, any one know how the jhl 1969 designe holds in in this respect (chip amps\classD don't seen to do so well in that respect- but then again that's what he uses on his Pluto amps?)

Any one built the new speakers yet ( bit premature to ask I know)

Regards
Johnny
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Old 13th July 2014, 10:52 PM   #3
Adhanda is offline Adhanda  United States
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I was in the process of constructing the 2.1’s, but will be seamlessly migrating over to the mini. One puzzling question is why SL has chosen to “attenuate” or “scatter and diffuse” the rear radiation from the dipole, whereas in the LX & Orion he did not. And, how much does the rear pipe contribute to other HF design parameters – FR etc. In straight forward terms... how can I get rid of it! Ouch! I can already feel the cringing out there. But I have no doubt that, for better or worse, we are going to see all sorts of weird alternative suggestions showing up soon.

Obviously I can not criticize a unit that I haven’t even heard yet, but I do suggest that the issue of rear radiation is very much a personal preference and hence a one-size-fits-all solution will never please everybody. Wouldn’t it be nice if there was a way to accomodate each’s personal taste and space by being able to adjust rear radiation?

And...oh yes, about the rear of the dipole being 180 out-of-phase at the XO. How worried should I be?

Dan
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Old 14th July 2014, 08:08 AM   #4
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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He states that the rear pipe is so you can put it up close to the wall, which is great for most people. Possibly he could make a open space version, but that would have to be at least 3' from the wall I'd think. It would be a very intriguing option as the driver would be pretty cool looking floating above the woofer, and would maybe sound even more like the Big LX in a room or people that allow the speakers to ramble around the room..


Not sure about it , but I suspect chip amps have fine damping factors. The Pass class A amps - not so much, but needs investigating, also how big a difference that makes..
I have a lot of Pass amps so I'd like to know too..

Last edited by Variac; 15th July 2014 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 14th July 2014, 02:06 PM   #5
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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Dan,

Is it an omni your after? If you want to build one of those, you can certainly do that.
This system has a different objective than an omni. One that I thought was pretty clear in his description.

Anyways, getting way off topic from the original. I've taken a look at the miniDSP setup file for the new LXmini system and it really does make use of the capabilities that a DSP box can bring to the table. It's probably worth starting another thread.

Cheers,

Dave.

Last edited by Davey; 14th July 2014 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 15th July 2014, 03:00 AM   #6
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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Default New Linkwitz "LXmini" speakers

Here is a link to his web site:
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LXmini/Introduction.htm

Last edited by Variac; 15th July 2014 at 03:17 AM.
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Old 15th July 2014, 07:33 AM   #7
CFT is offline CFT  United States
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Hi Dave,

How would a very nice dac + asp compared with the mindsp sonics wise you think?

My concern is the D/A part of the minidsp...and the spdif interface..
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Old 15th July 2014, 10:04 AM   #8
graaf is online now graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Variac View Post
Here is a link to his web site:
LXmini Challenge
"The full-range driver cone operates in break-up mode" ...and ...that's it?

now this is something seriously new, revolutionary new I would even say, both for SL's design and in the multiway camp of the DIY community generally
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Old 15th July 2014, 12:50 PM   #9
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I seldom post any more but when the door opens...


The LXmini is very similar in concept to a speaker I presented at DIY New England back in 2008 called the Bird House. Monopole woofer crossed into dipole mids with an even order crossover to yield a cardioid response in the transition region. My design was a 3-way with Neo 2 tweeter and I used back to back 4" mids. I commented on it here several times.


Beyond the Ariel

'Very' OB Midrange Baffle Width Study

Also made used of the monopole to dipole cardioid transition in my old NaO Mini. NaO Mini Design Objectives "It is also noted that, contrary to other open baffle designs, the Mini uses a sealed box, monopole woofer system. There is sound reasoning behind this. A recent AES article by Backman[1] examined dipole, monopole and cardioid woofer systems with regard to room interaction and sensitivity to listening/system position. His results indicate that in the sparsely populated modal region of the response, which is centered around 100 Hz for a typical listening room, cardioid woofers exhibit the least sensitivity to changes in system or listening position. Backman found dipole woofers to be the most sensitive. Additionally, below the room fundamental Backman shows that the dipole response drops off rapidly due to the inability of a dipole source to pressurize a room. The behavior of cardioid and monopole woofers are similar in nature below the room fundamental, however, the monopole woofer system benefits from higher sensitivity. [This is a result of the 6dB/octave roll off of 1st order gradient type speakers; dipoles and cardioids.] These results are similar to those discussed in the Music and Design articles on Room Response. Backman thus suggests that a woofer system which operates in cardioid mode through the sparsely populated modal region and undergoes a transition to a monopole response below the room fundamental could be optimum for low frequency reproduction."

And I understand that SL has now changed his position on rolling off the top end of his speakers. I recall we had a very long thread about that some time ago where one of my reasons that I disagreed was that if the recording engineers were using speakers which flat response during the mixing process then and such correction should already be in the recording. SL is now saying he was mistaken and apparently was correcting for poor recording.

This is a major reason I don't post anymore. I simply can not believe that so many in the DIY community continue to follow such misdirection, be it from SL or others. Go back and read the extended arguments SL gave about why the top end needed to be rolled off, about how critical the shape of the equalization curve was, how the correction should be adopted by the recording industry, about what a breakthrough this was. And now it's reduced to "I was correcting for bad recording". It's all too laughable. Not SL. He is a tinkerer and he will continue to be such. No, rather it's those in the DIY community who simple choose not to think for themselves and buy into the nonsense.
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Old 15th July 2014, 02:27 PM   #10
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFT View Post
Hi Dave,

How would a very nice dac + asp compared with the mindsp sonics wise you think?

My concern is the D/A part of the minidsp...and the spdif interface..
I don't know. If you've been following my comments through the years, you'll note I hardly ever comment on subjective evaluations of equipment.

The miniDSP equipment sounds fine to me, but that's just my opinion. If you have a concern regarding "sonics" you're the only one who can evaluate.

In this case, an ASP is probably not an option because the equalization applied to the dipole driver is somewhat extensive. SL has used the capability of DSP to move beyond his SOP of EQ'ing trends in response.

Cheers,

Dave.
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