I was looking through the reference speaker thread and just thought I might as a few questions here about my own setup.
I would like to build a small tower style setup, like the ones you see at Circuit City (Polk, Infinity, etc).
I only need a two way setup, though I would like to be able to mount a side firing woofer (8 or 10") in the tower if possible.
I like loud, but smooth treble, silk tweeters sound best to me (from what I have heard around). I like punchy midbass as well.
Would a two way tower be possible for under 75 bucks (including drivers and crossovers etc etc, not wood and varnish)?
I am rapidly improving my woodworking abilities so I would like ot build my own cabinet. Any downsides to the tower style, or does it really need to have the golden ratio to it (I suppose I could enclose part of the tower).
Would I get better sound out of a 75 dollar diy speaker or a 300 dollar Infinity from Circuit City?
Could I extend my speaker collection by creating a matching center and surround setup in the future, or is that a completely different project?
Thanks, I know these are probably all dumb questions, but advice is appreciated.
I would like to build a small tower style setup, like the ones you see at Circuit City (Polk, Infinity, etc).
I only need a two way setup, though I would like to be able to mount a side firing woofer (8 or 10") in the tower if possible.
I like loud, but smooth treble, silk tweeters sound best to me (from what I have heard around). I like punchy midbass as well.
Would a two way tower be possible for under 75 bucks (including drivers and crossovers etc etc, not wood and varnish)?
I am rapidly improving my woodworking abilities so I would like ot build my own cabinet. Any downsides to the tower style, or does it really need to have the golden ratio to it (I suppose I could enclose part of the tower).
Would I get better sound out of a 75 dollar diy speaker or a 300 dollar Infinity from Circuit City?
Could I extend my speaker collection by creating a matching center and surround setup in the future, or is that a completely different project?
Thanks, I know these are probably all dumb questions, but advice is appreciated.
sreten said:An alternative might be a compact floorstander with an
overdamped reflex alignment or a T/L tuned to near 33Hz
in an attempt to drive the room below resonance.
This or something similar could possibly work well :
http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/db61tl/default.html
sreten.
I just happened to read over this in another thread. I am new to home audio as well so I can't really help you out too much. What I do know is that you can get good drivers at low prices but you still need parts for the crossover. From all that I have read here I am pretty sure the crossover is one of the more important parts so better quality parts are needed for this. Inductors can get pricey as I have seen from PE.
Yes! That is very much what I am looking for!
I wonder how it would sound when compared to a store bought unit. Also, how does Dayton compare to say Peerless. Would a few more dollars buy me better drivers? I am still learning TS paramters and I understand some drivers work better in some enclosures than others.
Hehe all this information to go over. But thats what makes it ufn!
I wonder how it would sound when compared to a store bought unit. Also, how does Dayton compare to say Peerless. Would a few more dollars buy me better drivers? I am still learning TS paramters and I understand some drivers work better in some enclosures than others.
Hehe all this information to go over. But thats what makes it ufn!
Certainly a well implemented DIY speaker should outperform anything you would buy for the same price. Quite often a DIY speaker can outperform something twice the price. This ratio won't occur if you try to do it too cheap.
A good place to start for a very cheap DIY budget speaker is a fullrange single driver like a tangband 3" or 4" driver. They cost about $20 each and you don't need a crossover, although some of them can benefit from a "notch filter" which is not expensive. Here is an example:
TB speaker example
You could do that on your budget.
Adire have a few that are worth considering:
Adire free designs
They are above your budget, but you will have a hard time getting better for less. Don't expect much bass and clarity from a $75 DIY speaker!!!
A good place to start for a very cheap DIY budget speaker is a fullrange single driver like a tangband 3" or 4" driver. They cost about $20 each and you don't need a crossover, although some of them can benefit from a "notch filter" which is not expensive. Here is an example:
TB speaker example
You could do that on your budget.
Adire have a few that are worth considering:
Adire free designs
They are above your budget, but you will have a hard time getting better for less. Don't expect much bass and clarity from a $75 DIY speaker!!!
Wow! When you said full range I was pretty bleh about it, but that TB system sure looks nice, and I imagine close up and in a smaller room it would sound real ncie as well! Then paired with a sub it could really do something!
But how did he get the black powder look to the box? Thats really nice also!
That may very well be my first project then, cheap and simple, and I do bet it sounds good. That was a ncei flat response down to almost 100Hz. It does look like the very top end is a little funky though.
I dont know what a notch filter is yet. I am going to buy the Loudspeaker CookBook and do some learning.
But how did he get the black powder look to the box? Thats really nice also!
That may very well be my first project then, cheap and simple, and I do bet it sounds good. That was a ncei flat response down to almost 100Hz. It does look like the very top end is a little funky though.
I dont know what a notch filter is yet. I am going to buy the Loudspeaker CookBook and do some learning.
A notch filter can be either active or passive. Active means it uses opamps and a power supply and takes the signal from the preamp, before it gets to the power amp. Passive means that it can be in the speaker and works on filtering the signal that has been amplified. A notch filter adds an inverted parabola to the response, in other words it has a point that it cuts back, then rolls off sharply to either side as determined by the Q of the notch filter. John has used a passive notch filter, the simplest way.
Do a search on this forum for tangband. I have heard nothing bad about them. For their price everyone says they are great value. Many also comment that they sound better than they expected, and that it might have something to do with the fact that they are full range. Yes, it is unusual to find an aluminium cone, rubber surround and a phase plug in such a cheap speaker. Apparently when used in a terminated line enclosure, the imaging of these is stunning. Personallly I have had many ideas for different designs using this driver, but haven't gotten around to any of them. They also look good for a great little HT system.
Ok, here is some more food for thought on the TB:
zHorn - rear loaded horn to get bass down to 50 Hz with this driver:
look at the 4" version on the left, the one on the right shows you how it looks inside
Also check out the Norh 3.0 which uses a 3" TB driver in a very interesting enclosure, the top one is a terminated line aka inverted horn
I have also seen some TB speakers used for a line array - these drivers make it simple and affordable, although a line array will mess with the budget you have in mind right now.
The great thing about it is that there is not much you can do wrong with this. Basically put it in a box and play. Then you might try a passive notch filter and see how it sounds. Print off the schematic of the notch filter and take it in to an electronics shop and they can get you the parts and tell you how to put them together as it is very simple.
I'm not sure about the finish. You'll have to hunt around at your local paint store. Automotive paint is also promising, especially if you want it glossy as it dries faster and you have less problems with dust.
Keep in mind, with the zHorn, it was designed for the 4" version, so the notch filter on John's page wont' be right for it.
regards,
Paul
Do a search on this forum for tangband. I have heard nothing bad about them. For their price everyone says they are great value. Many also comment that they sound better than they expected, and that it might have something to do with the fact that they are full range. Yes, it is unusual to find an aluminium cone, rubber surround and a phase plug in such a cheap speaker. Apparently when used in a terminated line enclosure, the imaging of these is stunning. Personallly I have had many ideas for different designs using this driver, but haven't gotten around to any of them. They also look good for a great little HT system.
Ok, here is some more food for thought on the TB:
zHorn - rear loaded horn to get bass down to 50 Hz with this driver:
look at the 4" version on the left, the one on the right shows you how it looks inside
Also check out the Norh 3.0 which uses a 3" TB driver in a very interesting enclosure, the top one is a terminated line aka inverted horn
I have also seen some TB speakers used for a line array - these drivers make it simple and affordable, although a line array will mess with the budget you have in mind right now.
The great thing about it is that there is not much you can do wrong with this. Basically put it in a box and play. Then you might try a passive notch filter and see how it sounds. Print off the schematic of the notch filter and take it in to an electronics shop and they can get you the parts and tell you how to put them together as it is very simple.
I'm not sure about the finish. You'll have to hunt around at your local paint store. Automotive paint is also promising, especially if you want it glossy as it dries faster and you have less problems with dust.
Keep in mind, with the zHorn, it was designed for the 4" version, so the notch filter on John's page wont' be right for it.
regards,
Paul
Stupid question probably - does it matter which 'way' the inductors, capacitors, and resistors are oriented in the crossover? In other words, is there a (+) and (-) to these devices?
Sorry, not much electronics experience, but trying my hand at 2.5 DIYs. Got my parts in today and this question popped into my little brain.
Thanks.
Sorry, not much electronics experience, but trying my hand at 2.5 DIYs. Got my parts in today and this question popped into my little brain.
Thanks.
Chunky cheese,
Resistors, inductors are not polarised, ie. they don't have a positive or negative pole, so you can hook them up either way. If it is a bipolar electrolytic, then make sure you do hook it up the right way, as they do have a + and - and if you get it wrong .... well, just don't!
Components that are polarised will normally have markings.
I have a Jaycar component guide with a basic description of electronic components which I can send you if you like, just shoot me an email. I'd link you to it on Jaycars site, but I can't find it on there, but it is very helpful.
cheers,
Paul
Resistors, inductors are not polarised, ie. they don't have a positive or negative pole, so you can hook them up either way. If it is a bipolar electrolytic, then make sure you do hook it up the right way, as they do have a + and - and if you get it wrong .... well, just don't!
Components that are polarised will normally have markings.
I have a Jaycar component guide with a basic description of electronic components which I can send you if you like, just shoot me an email. I'd link you to it on Jaycars site, but I can't find it on there, but it is very helpful.
cheers,
Paul
You can build a nice 2-way for $75 a piece ($150 a pair) if you're a resourceful person. It helps if you're willing to wind your own inductors, which I'm not actually sure I'd recommend.
You can get drivers like 1/2 price compared to partsexpress or madisound or whatever on ebay, but of course you can't always get exactly what you want if you're picky. Also you need patience or time.
You can get drivers like 1/2 price compared to partsexpress or madisound or whatever on ebay, but of course you can't always get exactly what you want if you're picky. Also you need patience or time.
Yeah, try ebay for drivers, do searches on the model numbers, what you can find on ebay might be equivalent in specs to a driver that you can find plans for its use. I, for example, got some peerless 850106 drivers for about $40 for the pair, and they're basically the same as the 810108 drivers, just without what's called a shorting ring. The only difference is mine have a bit less excursion without distortion.
Also you can always get a larger inductor and unwind it until it's right. You don't even have to cut the wire, in case you want to increase the mh again by rewinding some.
And caps, buy cheap electrolytics for tweaking and when you like it get good ones for the final version.
Resistors, same as caps.
Now that's assuming you don't use plans with the crossover already planned out.
Also you can always get a larger inductor and unwind it until it's right. You don't even have to cut the wire, in case you want to increase the mh again by rewinding some.
And caps, buy cheap electrolytics for tweaking and when you like it get good ones for the final version.
Resistors, same as caps.
Now that's assuming you don't use plans with the crossover already planned out.
Sid,
now you have got me thinking! polarised, bipolar, non polar?
lol
ok so what is the difference?
Tacomaboy,
you need to be a little wary if you buy drivers from ebay. For a first project, it's best to follow a design and not to take on designing the crossover. If you find a driver that you can find a crossover design for, fine. But if you just pick up the drivers as they are going cheap, then try to do a hack job at the crossover, it may sound, well, cheap.
I think it pays to hunt around for a good design and follow that. There are lots of DIY designs around. Copying a design makes it so much easier, and is a good idea for a first project. If you want to do a cheap first speaker, and have some fun with it, and you aren't fussy, then sure, pick up some cheap ebay drivers. But given that Tacomaboy asked how this would compare to buying a speaker, I suspect this may not be the way to go for him.
I know of a number of designs documentated on thet net, including the crossover, but most of them cost more than a $75 budget for just the drivers. That's why I suggested Tangband speakers.
cheers,
Paul
now you have got me thinking! polarised, bipolar, non polar?
lol
ok so what is the difference?
Tacomaboy,
you need to be a little wary if you buy drivers from ebay. For a first project, it's best to follow a design and not to take on designing the crossover. If you find a driver that you can find a crossover design for, fine. But if you just pick up the drivers as they are going cheap, then try to do a hack job at the crossover, it may sound, well, cheap.
I think it pays to hunt around for a good design and follow that. There are lots of DIY designs around. Copying a design makes it so much easier, and is a good idea for a first project. If you want to do a cheap first speaker, and have some fun with it, and you aren't fussy, then sure, pick up some cheap ebay drivers. But given that Tacomaboy asked how this would compare to buying a speaker, I suspect this may not be the way to go for him.
I know of a number of designs documentated on thet net, including the crossover, but most of them cost more than a $75 budget for just the drivers. That's why I suggested Tangband speakers.
cheers,
Paul
polar bipolar nonpolar
Paul,
bi polar and non polar both mean that you can hook them up any way you want (i think there is a difference between them but i dont know exacly what it is ) but if you look at a bipolar and a non polar,neither of them have the indication for the negative or positive. Polar ones always have litlle lines on them usually a - - - to indicate wich one is the negative.
Paul,
bi polar and non polar both mean that you can hook them up any way you want (i think there is a difference between them but i dont know exacly what it is ) but if you look at a bipolar and a non polar,neither of them have the indication for the negative or positive. Polar ones always have litlle lines on them usually a - - - to indicate wich one is the negative.
You can also buy diy speakers some one has made on ebay or some internet classifieds or where ever. I definately would not buy speakers at Circuit City 
. I got some Acoustic Research 308HO speakers (3-way) off ebay, when ebay was new and not filled with so much crap (meaning this might not be that easy anymore) for $270 shipped to my house and I was very pleased with them, to say the least.
Try to find a midwoofer you like for cheap and then look for some projects that use that midwoofer and note what tweeter they have and then go look for the tweeter or buy that tweeter at "regular cost". I find this a good way of doing it. High end woofers can cost a lot and there's so many of them. Tweeters a lot of times are cheaper and there's only a few kinds people consistently use. You find a woofer chances are there's a available x-over and box design already designed for them using a scan speak 9500 let's say. Which is expensive, so it's not really a good example, but you know what I'm trying to say. They do sell the 9500 tweeter (tweeked for Revel though) on ebay all the time for like $100 a pair or very similar tweeters or clones for $100 a pair.
I don't like kits. Seems safe and lame and no fun
. I guess either way you're copying some one, so it's all the same. Also I would try to find a series x-over design.
. I got some Acoustic Research 308HO speakers (3-way) off ebay, when ebay was new and not filled with so much crap (meaning this might not be that easy anymore) for $270 shipped to my house and I was very pleased with them, to say the least.Try to find a midwoofer you like for cheap and then look for some projects that use that midwoofer and note what tweeter they have and then go look for the tweeter or buy that tweeter at "regular cost". I find this a good way of doing it. High end woofers can cost a lot and there's so many of them. Tweeters a lot of times are cheaper and there's only a few kinds people consistently use. You find a woofer chances are there's a available x-over and box design already designed for them using a scan speak 9500 let's say. Which is expensive, so it's not really a good example, but you know what I'm trying to say. They do sell the 9500 tweeter (tweeked for Revel though) on ebay all the time for like $100 a pair or very similar tweeters or clones for $100 a pair.
I don't like kits. Seems safe and lame and no fun
. I guess either way you're copying some one, so it's all the same. Also I would try to find a series x-over design.
I think Jimmy has made a good suggestion, just make sure you find a design before you buy, or have someone who is willing to help you with the crossover.
I like the idea of kits, although I don't like having to pay for the design. Still in some cases it may be better value, in comparison to doing the crossover yourself if you don't have the ability to do it properly. Often, though, the kits don't use the drivers you would like. I did actually build a kit as it did happen to use drivers that I wanted, and they were a good price.
In one sense you may think getting a kit is the easy way out, but then I was more adventurous with my box. I did a TL and I used a box with curved top/bottom/sides. It was quite ambitious, and it turned out well, although I doubt I will take on a curved TL again.
Most kits don't show you the crossover design. However, with Seas kits, they publish the crossover design, so you can take advantage of any opportunities you may have to get the drivers at a good price. If you have the budget, that is a very attractive option.
I like the idea of kits, although I don't like having to pay for the design. Still in some cases it may be better value, in comparison to doing the crossover yourself if you don't have the ability to do it properly. Often, though, the kits don't use the drivers you would like. I did actually build a kit as it did happen to use drivers that I wanted, and they were a good price.
In one sense you may think getting a kit is the easy way out, but then I was more adventurous with my box. I did a TL and I used a box with curved top/bottom/sides. It was quite ambitious, and it turned out well, although I doubt I will take on a curved TL again.
Most kits don't show you the crossover design. However, with Seas kits, they publish the crossover design, so you can take advantage of any opportunities you may have to get the drivers at a good price. If you have the budget, that is a very attractive option.
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