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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 18th January 2004, 01:17 PM   #81
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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Well x.onasis.........

Looks like this thread is going to die. Nice try.

Would have liked to seen an end result in the Wiki for the Newbies.....sigh.
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Old 18th January 2004, 06:09 PM   #82
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well, i'm gonna build the D25 and P17/P13. I'll try and put some stuff in the wiki as i go along building it. so, maybe something will come from it, if not a whole lot. I'm not exactly the greatest at explaining stuff....
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Old 18th January 2004, 07:03 PM   #83
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Not necessarily, Rabbitz.

Like the original intent of this thread suggested, I was looking for a project a number of us could build, that could be used to compare to others...in it's price range or not.

The last few days, I've been waiting for more input from "the committee" (as well as suffering thru the flu and sorting out my Audax HT crossovers) but I think your suggestion of the P13/D27 is a good starting point.

Woofer: Vifa P13WH-00-08
Tweeter: Vifa D27TG-45-06
Crossover: 5uF capacitor on tweeter as suggested
L-Pad: required?????......... 2db variation
Vb=5.2 litres plus 0.3 litres for driver and port, internal volume 5.5 litres, Fb=73.7 Hz, F3=78.8 Hz
Box: 175mm wide x 280mm high x 187mm deep?????? (5.5 litres)
Port: 39mm dia x 96mm (easy to get PVC pipe)
Port at front so can be placed against a wall if desired
16mm MDF

Scott C. Blaier's Esquire is the same, right? I'll be using 3/4" MDF as it's what I have, what about the sloped baffle?

I've ordered drivers. Other than x-overs, do you want to make any changes to this plan? (I'll build Scott's x-over as well)
You'll have your Peerless speakers to do a comparative write-up.

Tktran, aggielaw and others seemed to agree, PHilgeman's idea of using the P14 or the MG14 got some support.....phs, and slackerbob- if you, or anyone wants to post a design, we could build a set and make a comparison. I like Variac's suggestion of using more exotic drivers, and I wouldn't be surprised if, with NoKnowledge's help we quickly see the next generation of our Ref. 2- Way.

Lusso5 suggested a two way with the on-sale-everywhere AP170Z0 and TM025F1. I thought at first, we shouldn't concern ourselves with them because of future availability, but those reading this now, might want to take advantage of this opportunity.

One thing I hate, when reading on someone's website about their speaker project, is the sometimes noted on the bottom: "The above drivers are no longer available, blah, blah, blah...." Why, when they add this , they don't put it at the top, is beyond me.

I have the Audax drivers on hand and could do something, but I'm more interested in the P13 TLb and the Fostex 167E as next projects.

Thanks for all your help. This thread is not dead yet.
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Old 18th January 2004, 07:54 PM   #84
sobazz is offline sobazz  Denmark
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In my opinion that F3 is way to high. I wouldn't bother building it without building two subwoofers too. Half a year ago I built some small speakers (3.5L internal box volume (without drivers and port)) using a Peerless neodymium tweeter and a shielded Vifa TC 4 inch midwoofer. They have an Fb at 69hz and F3 at approx. 70-71hz. And they DO require a subwoofer in order to get satisfactory response.

But I'm sure they'll be excellent computer speakers whenever I get around to adjusting the crossover. A reference project ment as a starting point for newbie should have a F3 at no higher than 50-55hz, which should be obtainable with decently priced drivers in a reasonably sized box.
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Old 18th January 2004, 08:04 PM   #85
sobazz is offline sobazz  Denmark
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Just did some modeling. Not with the 13cm Vifa PL driver but a 11cm. With a box volume of 7L, an Fb of 59hz and 17.7cm long 4.7cm^2 port you will get an F3 at around 53hz.

I believe the 2.5L more is worth a lot.
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Old 18th January 2004, 11:05 PM   #86
netgeek is offline netgeek  United States
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My own vote for "most bang for the buck" (which is what most newbies want) is probably something like this - which I'm getting ready to build:

Tower speakers (approximately 42" high x 12" deep x 7.5" front) which has 2 Dayton 5.25" mids and a Dayton silk dome tweeter in an MTM configuration - AND - a Dayton 12" DVC sub mounted on the side. The whole thing is driven by an active crossover which includes Linkwitz transform to extend the bass to the sub, and three/four channels of "gainclones" (using LM4780's). Should cost out at about $125 to $150 per speaker and allow something around 110dB or so in normal listening.

I figure that it should be reasonable for both music and HT applications and it's cheap!

As for the drivers - they seem to be a pretty good match with each other AND a good match with the "gainclones" in terms of power output and the requirements.

Any comments most welcome........ will keep the forum posted on the progress (or lack of)....

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Old 19th January 2004, 03:30 PM   #87
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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The thread lives.

Quote:
Originally posted by x. onasis

Scott C. Blaier's Esquire is the same, right? I'll be using 3/4" MDF as it's what I have, what about the sloped baffle?
Since it's well documented, go with the Esquire design. For those that do not want a sloped baffle (and the extra work), the depth becomes 6.375" using 0.625" material.

The simple and cheaper alternative for the 4th order crossover would be the 5uF capacitor on the tweeter only. I can't see where he's put the port as he states it's to be used against the wall to reinforce the bass. None on the front, can't be on the back, so must be on the side. If it's to be placed out from the wall, then put the port in the back in line with the tweeter. Damping would be required on the back wall as a minimum.

This would be a good replacement speaker for those supplied with mini or midi systems, also would work well with a sub. Even would be good in a HT setup all round with a sub.....heaps of uses. Minimal bass, but great mids and highs.
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Old 19th January 2004, 04:59 PM   #88
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It was said early on that this would be a challenge simply because of the personal taste of individuals. I'm going to try and bring some of it together.
The intention of the project was to indentify a project for first time speaker builders. First time builders need something simple, cheap and probably with wide FR so they don't have to build a sub too. Simple rules out 3-way systems, horns, etc. Single driver might qualify except to get wide FR takes more money. MTMs have inherent problems that also take more time and money to correct. Therefore, I suggest the Pioneer B20/Piezo described by James Melhuish as an ideal starter project.
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Old 19th January 2004, 10:29 PM   #89
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Correction:

The build is described by Godzilla on James Melhuish's website.
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Old 20th January 2004, 03:53 PM   #90
SCD is offline SCD  Canada
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Hello Guys:
Be patient with those of us that do not respond immediately. I think there are two schools here those that want a cross over design and those that do not. For me the FE167e is great for a no cross over design. It is a proven driver and not real expensive. Others have completed the work needed to use it in various cabinet configurations. The DIYer need only go from the work of others to come up with a design.

I like the idea of a Newbie-read-me that contains a few well-documented projects. But mostly it should contain information and pit falls to watch out for. Some helpful hints on construction some watchful things in cross over design links to great web sites etc. I do not think there is a great first project that is going t fit all needs. As with my experience the essence of DIY is to modify an idea to suit your own needs. Make a few mistakes and figure out how to solve them learn and carry on.
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