diyAudio reference speaker project - Page 6 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th January 2004, 05:35 PM   #51
Bricolo is offline Bricolo  France
diyAudio Member
 
Bricolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Grenoble, FR
Quote:
Originally posted by planet10
TLb & monopole version FR (note the baffle-step in the monopole)
Did the monopole have BSC in it's XO?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2004, 05:57 PM   #52
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Santa Monica
Default I have a variatin of Nebula here.

For a long time I had tried to tame XT25 without getting satisfied.
I tried the filter used in Nebula and wam bam smack my *** and
call me Sally, that tweeter is great.

Well I have bigger boxes (1 cu. ft.) great standard size for pre fabricated cabinet and my woofer is vifa MG18SK. I like the MG line better (more pleasent mid) than the PL line and they are a tiny bit cheaper. I'm really happy with them and I have blind tested them against my AE1's and the only difference is that
the MG18/XT25 have alot better LF response (the AE's have a little bit better imageing). Great DIY when $300 speaker could keep up with $3K speaker.

Box 28liter (1cu. ft.) well damped
Port D5cm L12cm flared both ends.
Fb:37.5Hz F3:39.5Hz
X-over same as Nebula R1 changed 7.5 Ohm

Thinking of trying some XT woofers and different parallel X-overs
in the speaker when I get time. Sure that it is alot of room for tweaking and improving, but the base is good and pretty cheap.

Just my little input.
__________________
Helpless in US
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2004, 05:59 PM   #53
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally posted by Bricolo
Did the monopole have BSC in it's XO?
No. I was never able to convince the TLbs author that what this was showing was bafflestep.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2004, 06:51 PM   #54
Bricolo is offline Bricolo  France
diyAudio Member
 
Bricolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Grenoble, FR
Quote:
Originally posted by planet10


No. I was never able to convince the TLbs author that what this was showing was bafflestep.

dave
what did he think it was?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2004, 07:18 PM   #55
Variac is offline Variac  United States
diyAudio Editor
 
Variac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Francisco, USA
First, I agree that most of the first time builders of this speaker will be powering it at first with their receivers or similar what have you-good point. So the most basic version needs to have a passive crossover. It is human nature to want the most simple solution to a problem, but the single cap isn't always the answer.
Often it will make the upper highs nice, but the tweeter also tries to reproduce the mids lower than it should, at reasonable volumes it runs out of travel, and the highs tighten up and get harsh. I'm sure it works on some drivers OK though.

When you are crossing over very high (8-10k) like my Basszilla varients then the cap can work great.

The Okara and another speaker using the exact same drivers, the Ariel ME2 by Lynn Olsen, have complicated crossovers because their designers believe that's how they sound best.
The also XT25 has to have a multi order crossover because it won't roll off in the mids by itself!

This is a classic combo, but the tweeter is pretty pricey so in creases the start up costs.

This does bring up another point: On the Okara, the crossover becomes more expensive than the drivers. In a previous post I
have a link to Shelton Stokes Okara varient using the XT25

I believe that I have stumbled on a cool second step though-the gurus come up with an active biamped crossover using gainclones. Viola! a high end upgrade path for the newbie.
It actually might be cheaper to use the Gainclones active xover than buy huge inductors, etc.

I don't see a lot of guru's getting excited about this thread so far....

I also am concerned that the speakers proposed are all generally not like what is discussed here mostly, and not really in the spirit of current thinking on DIY Audio. The themes I see around DIY Audio mostly are: 1. open baffle 2. very efficient 3. full/wide range 4. horns

Some of these are mutually exclusive, but I can imagine speakers such as:

- a Fostex 206 open baffle with a woofer box
-a TL push push Fostex ($400 pr.

-the little Jordan in a box as in the Atlanta contest winner, an upgrade option would be it crossed over to a woofer box. (or the J-Low horn) Another version would be like the Tlb -bipole, push push. Yup, I guess I'm beginning to think that everyone should just buy a pair or 2 of Jordan Jx 92 drivers.. whoops-gotta work
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2004, 08:13 PM   #56
Variac is offline Variac  United States
diyAudio Editor
 
Variac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Francisco, USA
Whoops forgot to give props to Nobody Special and his success
with the XT25 and endorsement of the Nebula concept. I like hisproposal of a 1 cu ft box, and if he has actually tried both woofers and prefers the cheaper one, then that's all good too.
All drivers would be about $200 pr
Of course there is no requirement that it be a serial crossover- others can try the parallel approach.

Also, I forgot the respond to the Seas question. You have to go to the Madisound.com website and select catalog. They have some specs there, and a pdf file also, and I believe a link to Seas.

Edit: here's the Seas info: http://www.seas.no/seas_line/coaxial/H1144.pdf

cool photo:

http://www.seas.no/images/H°ytaler%2...ax.picture.htm

The upside to the Seas is that it can be treated similarly to a full range driver, the installation in a cabinet is easy, yet has some room for crossover tweaking, and more importantly bi amping later. It would also be an easy way to produce a push push bipole. The concentric aspect is apparently effective in getting coherent sound. It is also uncommon here in the US so there might be more interest in exploring it. With enough interest, we might get it as smooth a crossover as a fullrange, without the high frequency breakup. It has more travel than most full range also, so could it work better in an open baffle with equalization?

As to what to do with early speakers when you move on to other designs? Well , if you start with good drivers, you might go pretty far without ever requireing driver upgrade. The usual solution is to use them as part of a home theater setup. Also good for gifts to your kids or nephews, girlfriend (careful!)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2004, 08:39 PM   #57
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Santa Monica
Default Woofer tried

I have tried the following woofers with XT25
Focal 7w4411, great but focal tho..
vifa PL18
vifa TC18
Peerless 831510, always love their LF lacking details tho...
I even tried a 3way with XT25, MG10SD and Peerless 831858.
But it might be taste but I prefer vifa MG18, do I have to say that I'm kind of a vifa freak.

On the way I have tried to biamp with good result, but my first Idea was to build them for a friend and I'm pretty sure she doesn't want to buy an other amp. The thing is that I want it to be as simple as possible.

Well next weekend I will try to build and try the Okara filters. Ordered a pair of XT19, to try in my setup, the cheaper the better.

/Magnus
__________________
Helpless in US
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2004, 10:37 PM   #58
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally posted by Variac
-a TL push push Fostex ($400 pr.
4x FE103 = $130

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2004, 10:44 PM   #59
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally posted by Bricolo
what did he think it was?
I'd have to did out some really old emails to see what he said.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2004, 05:22 AM   #60
Variac is offline Variac  United States
diyAudio Editor
 
Variac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Francisco, USA
Mr. 10;
Dave-
I don't keep up w/ all the Fostex, but is the FE127E good?
Still in the $30 range.

It seems flatter than most, it is over 90dB. It's even shielded.
Seems like a good compromise in range price and efficiency.

Although some say that the Wiki isn't for a list of speaker plans links, I think it would be perfect for the job. While researching this thread I have come to the realization that there are a lot of beginner speakers out there. Maybe if you guys agree, you could start a Wiki on Speaker kits and plans links. Then we could all post our links, end up with a generous list, AND get non-threatening experience with the Wiki. I know I would be willling to explore the concept if all it involved was addin links to a list. If you need more moderator encouragement, compare the projects listed here with the sad number listed in the links area

  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:57 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2