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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 12th October 2012, 05:49 AM   #391
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Has anyone used a P13W with a D27TG-45 with a 6 dB crossover ( just single cap on tweeter plus R for attenuation ) and one L for the P13 ? Crossed over possibly at 3.5 khz!
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Old 12th October 2012, 09:12 AM   #392
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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See post #179 in this thread.
diyAudio reference speaker project

I preferred the 3rd xo in the standard series xo list.
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Old 12th October 2012, 09:30 AM   #393
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I found using a coil on the P-13 that high made no difference.
just 1.2R and 4.7uF worked for me.
Mind you this was for SWMBO and her ears are much more acute than mine and this was for the bedroom where high volumes are not going to be needed.
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Old 12th October 2012, 10:16 AM   #394
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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Here's a cute little speaker Troels Gravesen put together, giving mention that the woofer used could be a worthy successor (not direct replacement, but in the same vein) as the old P13WH.

SEAS CURV
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Old 12th October 2012, 02:25 PM   #395
gornir is offline gornir  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
Here's a cute little speaker Troels Gravesen put together, giving mention that the woofer used could be a worthy successor (not direct replacement, but in the same vein) as the old P13WH.

SEAS CURV
, but with one significant difference. The SEAS U16RCY/P can actually play bass, a lot of bass for its size (think ScanSpeak Revelator).

/Göran
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Old 12th October 2012, 06:40 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
I think I missed something here Bob, are you suggesting the 3 inch as the woofer for the new project? If so I couldn't find a link in your previous post and as Rabbitz noted Peerless change their driver catalogue very quickly.
I just visited the Tymphany website and found no 3 inch that i would have said had any bass to speak of in a reasonably sized room, look like F3s in the high 80s which would satisfy most beginners i think
As for the position of the XO point, I find it less of a problem than most people when using the better ( smoother ) drivers and I can live with crossovers anywhere in the region from 2500 to 6000Hertz, I don't think any project using anything more than second order is feasible for beginners ( which as pointed out is the whole point of this particular reference project.
Simpler the better works for me
Personally I bi-amp/tri-amp on the low end
The 3 inch Peerless I mentioned would in my opinion be a good contender for midrange, not bass. It needs it's own sub-enclosure, but has a very smooth response from 110HZ in a closed box (Q=.8 or .9), up to 15kHZ. A one pole crossover would work well with this driver as long as it's not over driven at the low end. Because any driver gets directional at the high end, I'm only using them up to about 7kHZ, where a 3/4 inch dome (Dayton) will take over. I choose 7kHZ for two reasons; because the off axis response will be similar to a reverse Fletcher-Munson curve, which usually sounds better subjectively, and because above about 6kHZ imaging is no longer easy for the brain to be clear on, so at the frequencies where imaging can really do its thing (100HZ - 6kHZ) we do minimal damage.
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Old 12th October 2012, 10:46 PM   #397
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Bob I did start a "Reference" 3-way thread but it died more than a year ago.
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Old 12th October 2012, 10:48 PM   #398
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Ported (Bass Reflex) vs. Closed Box:

If you can't do an active electronic crossover between the woofer and above, bass reflex MAY be a good idea, since in theory anyway, you'll get more bass. Here are the reasons I do NOT like ported designs:

Mechanical damping is only good at the frequency of the port tuning, and is very weak as you move away from that frequency (so ringing is more likely).

As the driver ages, it's parameters will change somewhat, which may throw off the calibration of the port.

Internal cabinet volume needs to be properly calculated, and any acoustic absorbtive material (critically important) will effectively increase the internal volume, and you need to know how much, to accurately calculate the port size. Closed box designs are MUCH less sensitive to a small increase of internal volume.

Because of the damping issue above, it's considered very unwise to use active EQ to force the ported woofer to be flat to a frequency below its port tuning frequency. With a closed box, and active EQ, I have two Peerless 12 inch XLS woofs going acoustically flat to 20 HZ, with a 4th order rolloff at 100HZ, and it is AWESUM.

Early on, I thought going active would be a lot more complicated and time consuming. Now I really doubt it. Active crossovers with or without active EQ means much better precision but also more poweramps which means money. If your time is worth much, and you want accuracy and significantly better sound, I wouldn't rule out active. Circuits can be pulled from the Linkwitz website (and others) and values scaled to get the exact numbers you want. Use the free SPICE circuit analysis program for PC to verify the active filter/EQ circuits before building. If you take too many shortcuts, you may end up rebuilding your speakers over and over, like many of the rest of us. To be fair, there's a lot to be said for learning through mistakes.
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Old 12th October 2012, 10:52 PM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
Bob I did start a "Reference" 3-way thread but it died more than a year ago.
Building good speakers is usually a lot of work. The right speaker depends on the listening room acoustics, and personal preferences. Group buys may not be practical when the people are spread out geographically (shipping charges). Sorry to sound this way. It's still fun and educational for many to discuss it.
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Old 13th October 2012, 04:33 AM   #400
DeonC is offline DeonC  South Africa
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Hi guys

Using a small fullrange with a woofer is also called a FAST design (quite a few of them discussed on the forum). The idea is to XO at the bafflestep freq. If you want to go to a small tweeter at circa 7kHz then the Mark Audio CHP drivers will be a good choice. You will however need a good bass driver to match, but there are a few such designs on the forum (mostly in the Fullrange forum, IIRC). A FAST is indeed a very simple design, very suitable for a rookie.

Enjoy,
Deon
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