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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 28th March 2008, 08:21 AM   #291
rjad is offline rjad  Australia
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I am very interested in this project, and thought I would have a crack at it. As a beginner, I guess this would be a good test for the project and for me. There also seems to be quite a few Australians contributing, so I am hoping that this will help in part selection. I thought I could begin by working on a BOM. Note I haven't bought any drivers or crossover parts before, so what I have is from searching on the web. I am looking at Australian sites at the start to reduce shipping costs, but I am guessing that cross-over parts should be small and light enough to be bought from international suppliers. Anyway, based on this project, here is a start, looking at speakerbits website:

item price (AUD)
Drivers
D27TG-45-06 VF027C 50.78
P13WH-00-08 VF130D 81.85

Crossover (rabbitz alternative 1)
R1 5R7
L1 0.68mH Carlsson inductor (COILC00-68) 7.79
C1 3.3uF Solen fast capacitor (SOC003.3) 24.77

I'm guessing that L1 slightly under rabbitz value of 0.7 mH would be ok.
Total cost for a pair for the above is $330.38. With resistors, terminals, vent, lining, mdf, veneer and shipping, I think you would be lucky to get it under $400AUD. This is a tad more than I had planned to spend on a first project--I was thinking $200-300. Does all this seem right?
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Old 28th March 2008, 01:55 PM   #292
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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First, make sure this is the speaker that will suit your application as it's not big on low bass but great elsewhere. Fantastic in a small to medium room but a larger room needs bass assistance such as a sub or a larger 0.5 woofer.

I couldn't check the Speakerbits site as it's not working at the moment. I'd be surprised if you can get the D27TG-45-06 as the distributor hasn't had it for a while but the D27TG-35-06 drops straight in (same tweeter with a different face plate). The Solen cap price is way off... unless that's the inductor price. Just make sure their price includes GST as I think it might not.

The 0.68mH works fine as that's what's in mine.

Send me an email from this forum and I give you a price for those components which I will do at cost plus Paypal fees if applicable. I'd have to check availability at the distributor if you were interested.
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Old 28th March 2008, 08:41 PM   #293
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Hi Rabbitz try a different address



http://www.speakerbits.com

It apparently changed last week sometime
Those do look like the current prices and we are a small market here so shipping costs ad markup is very high!!!
Regards Ted
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Old 28th March 2008, 09:48 PM   #294
rjad is offline rjad  Australia
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rabbitz,
thanks for your reply. I would send an email but I am too new on this forum so I'm not allowed. I would be keen to see the prices, so maybe if you could email me to start that would be great.

I like the philosophy you had in mind with this--that as a first project it should sound good, and that a beginner would like to start with something that someone has already worked out a sensible design. Later projects could be designed differently.

Thank you for also pointing out the limitation of this speaker as well--it should be ok for my purposes in a mid-sized room, and I think that there would be an opportunity to add base with maybe a sub later if I wanted. I like the idea that there is some room for tweaking stuff like subs, crossover etc in this, should help me learn about it.
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Old 29th March 2008, 03:22 AM   #295
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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rjad

You have mail.

Moondog55

Thanks for the updated link. Speakerbits prices do not include GST and I thought that was a no no for an Oz reseller.
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Old 29th March 2008, 03:55 AM   #296
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Hi Rabbitz, this is Moondog55's SWMBO :-)

Some info regarding GST . As long as the seller advises that prices do not include GST, you should expect that GST will be added to the invoice (when you purchase within Australia). GST legislation covers what information is to be written onto a tax invoice but not its format. When we advise clients how they charge GST (I work for ATO) the thing that we always stress is to ensure your customers are aware whether your prices are inclusive or exclusive of GST but the bottom line is, if someone is registered for GST they are legally liable for charging it.

Sellers that ship overseas may not need to charge GST to these overseas customers, so leaving this off their pricing imay be easier for them. If you want to check the GST registraton of an entity, you can use the ABN lookup function at abr.gov.au.

Generally, you should expect to always pay GST when dealing with a well-established business...small businesses with turnover less than 75k are not required to be registered.

If you ever have any question, make sure you ask the seller about it.

Hope this helps
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Old 29th March 2008, 08:33 AM   #297
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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Thanks for the GST 101.
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Old 22nd June 2008, 05:14 AM   #298
jamtin is offline jamtin  Australia
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Hi all,

Great forum you have here. I’m a hi fi newbie planning on building 2 way bookshelf speakers and the reference speakers described here look “do-able”.
I understand from earlier in the thread the vifa PL13 is discontinued. It’s still available in Aus available according to some websites. In the interests of science and learning about speaker design, I’d like to try and find a current replacement. Sticking with Tymphany (seem to be easy to get in Aus), options for 5” midbass listed on their site :

Vifa PL14WJ09-08
Peerless 832873
Peerless 830860
Peerless 831882

Vifa has 86 db sensitivity vs 88 for the Peerless. I’m looking at using a lower wattage amp, so go with the Peerless. The 831882 is $20+ more than the other two, so I’d prefer one of the other two. Musical taste is mainly guitar rock, some acoustic.

Has anyone used the 832873 or 830860, and which would be preferable for this application ? I’ve been playing around with them & PL13 in Win ISD, but I’d like some real world feedback. The manufacturers websites have hype on each driver, but don’t give guidance on what they’re best suited for ie

832873 HDS Nomex “Featuring "shorting rings" for low distortion and coils offering perfect linear compatibility with NOMEX cones, these audio transducers are characterized by their very open, very rich sound character”

830860 HDS PPB “Polypropylene Black (PPB) cone material used in the HDS PPB Series, creating a stiff but still dampened cone that remains stable even under the greatest sound pressures.”
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Old 22nd June 2008, 10:38 AM   #299
contour is offline contour  Netherlands
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You need the P13WH-00-08 not the PL. Here in the netherlands these drivers turn up second handed from time to time. So not very difficult to find a couple.

Recently I added 2x the Tangband W6-1108SA as subs to my 5 litre design with the Vifa P13WH.

It is amazing how low these 6" Tangband go. They also have very little distortion. In fact a couple of these sounds much better then the big 18" sub which can also be seen on the next picture:

http://www.zelfbouwaudio.nl/forum/download.php?id=8331

Best regards,

Walt
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Old 22nd June 2008, 12:36 PM   #300
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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jamtin

Have a look at a list of drivers at Zaph's as will give you some ideas as well as his designs.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/5.5test/

I'd go with the 832873 Nomex as there has been a lot of positive results from builders using various Nomex drivers in different sizes. I've had great results from the 6.5" 830875 from small standmounts to floor standers and it's a great driver for the money. I've used the previous 5.5" 850488 with great success so can't see a problem using the replacement drivers.

Another option is the 830875 in a small box and I've got one in a box Vb=12 litres. There's something about a 6.5" vs 5.5" in a small box as the sound is more dynamic and effortless.

Be aware that you can't transplant the crossovers for the D27/P13 project into something else. It will have to be designed from scratch.

A good tweeter match is the SEAS 27TDFC which is easy to work with, robust, reasonably priced and sounds good. There is little in the Tymphany range around the same dollars... maybe the DX25TG-05-04 but requires more work.

One other thing.... usually the WinISD optimum result that it comes up with is rarely the best one to use. It normally picks a result which is the flattest with the lowest F3 to suit. You normally have to play around to achieve a design goal.

Have fun in your project.
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